Using PhotoLab 4 to process sunset photos

[mikemyers]

@platypus

I’m saying that these lights don’t bother me. The image lives by the colour of the sky and the clouds against the skyline. Better rendering of the light sources in the foreground will not improve the impression of the sky and clouds.

Tonight was useful as a dry-run, but that beautiful colored sky, and all those clouds that you noted never happened. Jupiter was still there and I took several shots, each one bracketed. I’ll try Joanna’s way next time. For a great photo, without the clouds and sky, tonight was a waste - but I’ll pick one of the images and upload it anyway,

@Joanna

Once this is installed, you can even set this as your default instead of the DxO version, or you can use it after the fact without fear of losing previous edits.

I don’t think I’ll do that any more - If anything, I’ll click the Preset I want “DxO Optical Corrections Only” before I open any image, and try to get in the habit of doing that.

@Joanna

If you can, set the exposure compensation to + 1⅔ and spot meter the brightest part of the subject. This will ensure that you will not blow highlights and you will be able to recover shadows in PL.
Then progressively add ⅓ stop of shutter opening time every so many minutes as the light fades.

For today, I tried to guess at the right exposure from a few test shots, then set the bracketing to take 5 shots at a time. I slowed down the shutter speed as it started to get darker.

I also took two quick shots with my Df, to get a feel for how it works with a shot like this.

@Joanna

Nikon MC-DC2 Remote Release Cord 25395 B&H Photo Video

I’m not too excited about even more electronic gadgets - one more reason to use the Df, that accepts the standard cable releases I already have. Thanks for finding this though - I might change my mind, if I had a good reason.

[mikemyers]

@platypus

I’m saying that these lights don’t bother me. The image lives by the colour of the sky and the clouds against the skyline. Better rendering of the light sources in the foreground will not improve the impression of the sky and clouds.

Unfortunately, you are right. I cut down all the photos I took today to only five, and only one of them seemed suitable. I tried to copy so much of what Joanna suggested, and it almost seems like it works, but the water is boring, the sky is boring, and there never was much color in the sky. My 24mm Nikkor lens seems to be much better at f/8, and there was just the tiniest bit of noise in the sky, which Deep Prime will probably fix. I made the image just the tiniest bit warmer, as if the sky was lighting up the buildings with more of the orange color. One small boat came along with a blue light on the front, and I made sure I got that in the photo - it’s the only thing that’s “live”.

I was going to lighten up the building at the right, but decided not to. I toned down the very brightly lit terminal in the background, and this time one can even see inside it. Oh, and I just know that everyone who sees this is going to tell me to clean my sensor - and speaking of that, it isn’t as distorted as it was yesterday, and the lights that bothered me yesterday seem toned down a little.

If I had clouds in the sky, they would be reflecting light down to light up the small boats. Maybe next time. As a learning experience this has been SO helpful. So many great people pushing me in better directions!

(In my PhotoLab4 window, the image looks like what I wanted to do, but in this forum, surrounded by all the white space, the image looks way too dark. Not sure what to do about this, if anything…)

_MJM9021 | 2021-09-28-Sun setting over Biscayne Bay.nef
_MJM9021 | 2021-09-28-Sun setting over Biscayne Bay.nef (27.2 MB)

_MJM9021 | 2021-09-28-Sun setting over Biscayne Bay.nef.dop (13.3 KB)

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

@mikemyers

even more electronic gadgets

Why not use the camera’s self timer?

Newer cameras can be remote triggered by coupling it to an app on a mobile device. I do this with my Canon M6 and an iPad…

[Pathal (Patrick)]

@mikemyers

Cable release - good question. I needed to find out how to attach one to my D750,

Hi @mikemyers ,
You can install Nikon Snapbridge on your smartphone, and then get remote control of your D750.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Unfortunately, it’s not compatible with the D750

@mikemyers

I’m not too excited about even more electronic gadgets

It is very unlikely that you will find any modern cameras that accept the mechanical release cables. And it’s not super expensive or sophisticated.

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik6 (+3) ])]

My D750 works with Nikon ML-L3
→ Nikon ML-L3 Wireless Remote Control (Infrared) 4730 B&H Photo

PHOTO SHOOTING MENU → Remote control mode (ML-L3) => Mup Remote mirror-up

• press the Remote release → mirror goes up
• wait about 2 sec (to calm any mirror shock, esp. on tripod)
• press the Remote release again to start the exposure

regardless of any drive mode (S, Cl, …).

[mikemyers]

If possible, I would like to continue using my Df whenever possible. It has 16 megapixels in the sensor, not 24, but I have enjoyed using it so much more. It is lighter, has more controls available, can accept almost any lens Nikon has made sine the very beginning, including non-AI lenses, and the designer at Nikon built a camera that HE would want, not something for the mass market.

While setting up my D750 for the repeat shot yesterday, I saw something interesting happening, grabbed my Df, stuck my 80-200 on it, and got the following. Unfortunately, I forgot that I had left it in JPG mode, not raw, as I was showing my brother how to use his Df, and he can’t spell “raw”. I should know better - I try to always put my cameras back to my default settings when I finish with them. Anyway, here’s what PL4 did for my image with some minor changes and a little cropping that I didn’t have time to do in the camera:

(Viewed at 100%, it’s not going to be as large as images from the D750, but Nikon put their best sensor at that time, from the D4, into this camera, along with a lot of love. I look at the images at 100% and I haven’t yet been disappointed - and this was a grab shot, no tripod. Where Nikon messed up, is they put in the focusing mechanism from the D610, not their best, so it has a limitation for fast focusing or focusing in minimal light.)

Anyway, back to reality - I intended to mostly use my Df, not my D750, from now on. If I re-take my sunset photo tonight, I plan to use the Df, unless one of you feels I should continue with the 750?

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

I would like to continue using my Df whenever possible. It has 16 megapixels in the sensor, not 24

That’s as maybe but you also lose dynamic range, which you don’t want to do if shooting RAW for high contrast scenes like you have just been doing.

That extra stop-and-a-half can come in really useful.

@mikemyers

It … has more controls available

Not strictly true unless you are counting the twiddling knobs type controls

@mikemyers

can accept almost any lens Nikon has made sine the very beginning

As can, to the best of my knowledge, the D750

@mikemyers

Anyway, back to reality - I intended to mostly use my Df, not my D750, from now on. If I re-take my sunset photo tonight, I plan to use the Df, unless one of you feels I should continue with the 750?

Especially from the dynamic range POV, the D750 is the better camera for this type of shot and will give you more chance of avoiding over-exposed points of light whilst still giving you the ability to recover shadow detail.

Don’t forget that the more Mpx, the more you can crop if you can’t get close enough to a subject.

---

Addenda

The Df is diffraction limited from f/8, whilst the D750 can go down to f/10 before diffraction becomes a factor. This affects how point light sources, amongst other things, “spread”.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Not strictly true unless you are counting the twiddling knobs type controls

On the back of the Df, there are separate controls for AEL/AFL and AF-ON - which I use all the time. To be able to focus with a rear button on the D750, I need to repurpose the AEL/AFL button so it tells the camera to focus. I no longer focus by pressing the shutter release half way - I only focus with the rear button, so my focus doesn’t change between shots.

@Joanna

As can, to the best of my knowledge, the D750

No, using non-AI lenses can break the D750. The Df has a tab that you can move out of the way, so my ancient Nikon lenses, some of which were very useful to me, like my tilt/shift lens, will fit fine on the Df.

@Joanna

That extra stop-and-a-half can come in really useful.

All this is dangerous thinking for me. If it is important, maybe I should go buy a Nikon D5, or D6, or whatever they are up to now? Check this:

@Joanna

Especially from the dynamic range POV, the D750 is the better camera for this type of shot and will give you more chance of avoiding over-exposed points of light whilst still giving you the ability to recover shadow detail.

Don’t forget that the more Mpx, the more you can crop if you can’t get close enough to a subject.

Agreed with both of those points - which is why I used my D750, although my reasoning was flawed. What you write is much more useful than what I was thinking. The D750 isn’t going anywhere, as I have it set up perfectly for what I (used to) do.

You made me curious as to what my Leica M10 can do regarding dynamic range:

Apparently it’s like my Df.

I think I’ll stick with what I’ve got, and follow your advice for shots like this. Thanks for bursting my bubble.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

If it is important, maybe I should go buy a Nikon D5, or D6, or whatever they are up to now? Check this:

Why would you do that when the D750 fives you 14.something stops range as opposed the just over 12 on the D5? The only “advantage” to the D5 on this graph is the insanely high ISO, but with very little dynamic range when you get there. It’s primarily designed for sports photography.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

It’s primarily designed for sports photography.

Yep, I know. I was doing sports photography (radio controlled car racing world championships) and got the D2h in the first order from B&H (had to be replaced three times, when I gave up and asked them to send me an in-house used D2x that they knew worked), then got a D3 (great camera), but when I stopped shooting sports, the D3 was too big and heavy, so I got the D750 and still have it.

Thanks - now I have even more reasons not to think about the D5 or 6 or 7 or whatever. The D800 series like what you’ve got is a whole different world - I almost bought the D800, but got the D750 because of size and weight. My other choice back then was a Df.

I’m not even going to read up on this, even though you love yours, but if I had more spending $$$:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1351688-REG/nikon_d850_dslr_camera_body.html

[Wolfgang ([ Win10, PL+VP+FP, Nik6 (+3) ])]

@mikemyers – knowing the cam plus the right lens is key

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

@mikemyers

but if I had more spending $$$

…it could go to some social project instead…

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@platypus

…it could go to some social project instead…

I’m very sociable and I have plenty of projects

[mikemyers]

There’s also the thought “do the best you can with what ya’ got”.

@Wolfgang

knowing the cam plus the right lens is key

I agree with this, and the weak points in my images are far, far more due to me, than to the equipment.

Seriously speaking, if I do spend more $$, I think it’s more important to improve some of my old lenses. The D750 was intended to get me off the bandwagon of constant updates, and it worked. The Df put the nail on the coffin. I think my Nikon lenses are adequate, but some of my 60-year-old Leica lenses could use some improvement, but at $10,000 each or so, that’s out of the question. Voigtlander makes for a more reasonable upgrade at 1/10th the cost.

Back to this thread, I will try again tonight, and maybe the sky will be a little more cooperative.

[uncoy (Alec Kinnear)]

@Joanna

Next time, up the ISO and stop down

Can’t agree at all with this. Landscapes are ruined by high ISO. The fine details grain and blur away.

Keep ISO at 100 and stop down and expose longer. Ideally on a tripod but you can put the camera on top of a table or a ledge or anything stable (hold onto the strap if you have your Nikon the balcony railing). Of course the framing won’t be ideal or perhaps even level but that can be fixed in Photolab if the core of the image is there.

PS. The D750 is more than enough camera for this kind of photography. Even for sports photography. Where the D750 falls down is in buffer. Nikon was aware sports photographers might buy D750 as a second body (costing D810/D850/D5 sales) so the buffer is ridiculously small at 14 RAW frames. As the SD cards are the older slower UHS-I versions capped out at 68 MB/sec, the buffer kills the D750 for any serious sports use.

For image quality the obvious upgrade is the D850 (probably used at this point). Out of this world image quality with incredible dynamic range. For video and new technology, the obvious upgrade is the D780. I own both of these cameras but usually carry around the D780 as I’d like to be able to shoot videos. I shoot both of them for sports. I posted an ISO 16000 file processed in Photolab earlier today. Here it is again.

But unless you want long bursts, the D750 takes amazing photos even at high ISO, with excellent autofocus. Here’s an example at ISO 1600.

You would be better to spend your money on glass, although at 24 MP you can safely shoot moderately good older glass. The D850 requires very high quality glass or one is just throwing all that resolution. Nikon offers an affordable and excellent 24mm f1.8 F mount lens. I don’t own this one as I had the chance to pick up a Sigma 24mm f1.4 at half price but if I had to choose again it would be the Nikon, as it’s quite a bit smaller and lighter and not that much darker (not even half a stop in real life).

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

Back to this thread, I will try again tonight, and maybe the sky will be a little more cooperative.

Talking of which, I just reworked this image, using an appropriate DCP profile from the Adobe DNG Converter installation that @platypus talked about here Color behavior - Any answer? - #21 by platypus as a starting point.

It really gives an amazing starting point, with a properly flat rendering that was easier to work with - at least, that’s my opinion.

Here’s an export of the finished result…

And here are the steps I took to get there.

1. Apply the four Optical Corrections and set the colour temperature to 5600°K ±0

   

2. Apply the Flat camera profile for your camera.

   

   You’ll need to import the profile from where @platypus showed by selecting the rendering drop-down and navigating to the folder.

   This then gives…

   

3. Now, apply a couple of Spot Weighted Smart Lighting areas: one to the bright building on the left…

   

   Note how clear the lights are without having to reduce the exposure. This means you got the exposure spot on.

   Now apply a second area to the darkest part of the bottom right…

   

   Once again, you can see that the lights are not flared.

   This then gives you this…

   

4. Now reduce the top of the tone curve and increase the bottom, and add a bit of fine contrast…

   

   … to give you this…

   

5. Add in a touch of Vibrance…

   

6. Turn on the DeepPRIME NR and apply a Force Parallels perspective correction and crop…

   

And that’s just about it. Subject to your approval of course

Here’s the DOP file with my version added…

_MJM9021 | 2021-09-28-Sun setting over Biscayne Bay.nef.dop (26,2 Ko)

[platypus (Canon & Mac (Intel and M1))]

I cropped off the monster at the left edge of the image…

…and brushed the left edge building and path darker by 0.9 stops.

[uncoy (Alec Kinnear)]

@platypus

Strangely enough, the image appears darker although I used Joanna’s sidecar

If you’d like to play in this game, p, is it really that difficult to export the file properly and upload a hires image rather than a really shoddy screenshot?

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

Interesting. To my eye, that now looks unbalanced the other way. But I wouldn’t like to offer opinion on which is the better shot.