How to manually identify a lens used on a camera known to PL4

[mikemyers]

I am shooting quite often with a Leica M10, usually using my Leica lenses. I needed to take an ultra-wide photo using a “Voigtlander Super Wide-Heliar 15mm f/4.5” lens. Since this lens is unknown to my M10, the camera still thinks I’m using a 50mm Summicron which I selected manually.

I have three questions. First, does PL4 “know” my Voigtlander lens? How can I see if it is in the PL4 database?

Second, if it is listed, is there a way to manually select it to use on my iMac?

Third, if I can’t select this lens, I better off setting the Preset to “DxO Standard” (which will correct for my M10, and probably the incorrect lens it thinks I used), or to “No Correction”?

(I’m going ahead with the PL4 thinking it’s a 50mm Summicron, until/unless there is a better way.)

[Sigi]

@mikemyers

I have three questions. First, does PL4 “know” my Voigtlander lens? How can I see if it is in the PL4 database?

you can check here: https://www.dxo.com/dxo-photolab/supported-cameras/

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

I have three questions. First, does PL4 “know” my Voigtlander lens? How can I see if it is in the PL4 database?

Have you seen the little indicator on the thumbnails?

This only appears if you haven’t yet downloaded an optics module for that particular camera/lens combination. If the icon is not there, then you already have the module and PL will automatically apply it.

Clicking on the icon brings up this dialog…

… where you can download the appropriate module.

There is also a dialog that allows you to see what modules are available and manage what you have on your computer…

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If you can’t find a suitable module, then it is down to you to apply any corrections manually.

The four tools to do that are Vignetting, Chromatic aberration, Unsharp mask and Distortion.

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@mikemyers

Third, if I can’t select this lens, I better off setting the Preset to “DxO Standard” (which will correct for my M10, and probably the incorrect lens it thinks I used), or to “No Correction”?

“DxO Standard” applies all sorts of other stuff to your image, a lot of which you will only have to change anyway and, if there is no module for your camera/lens, it will not do anything in terms of optical corrections - it will then be up to you to adjust the four tools to your satisfaction. The “No Correction” preset does what it says on the tin

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

Have you seen the little indicator on the thumbnails?

No, I won’t see that, because my 1960’s 50mm Summicron was not shown, until I looked up the appropriate ID for my specific 50mm Summicron (there are many, over the years) and manually entered that ID number. So, when I move the memory card to my computer, PL4 thinks I shot the image with my Summicron.

(The Leica lenses I own were manufactured long before electronics got involved - they were originally bought for my Leica M3 film camera.)

In other words, PL4 ‘knows’ that I used a 50mm Summicron. If nothing else, can I tell PL4 to ignore the lens selection, and only adjust for the camera?

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

… and manually entered that ID number.

I’m not sure what you mean here. How and where did you enter the ID?

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

… where you can download the appropriate module.

There is also a dialog that allows you to see what modules are available and manage what you have on your computer…

Thank you. I did as you suggested and got this:

Since there is nothing listed for Voigtlander, I guess that answers my question.

Is there a way to tell PL4 to “ignore” my lens, so it’s not making corrections for the 50mm f/2 lens? No big deal, I guess. The image I see on my screen is fine. There is vignetting in the corners, but I can correct that manually, if I want to - or just ignore it.

You did answer my question though. Maybe next time for a Preset I will simply select no corrections.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

I’m not sure what you mean here. How and where did you enter the ID?

This is how the system is supposed to work on a Leica M camera:

Leica M lenses coding for digital

For old lenses like mine, I can look up my serial number on charts provided by Ken Rockwell, and find the appropriate “lens setting” and then I can enter that into my camera, so it “knows” that I am using this 1960’s Summicron 50mm f/2 lens. As for PL4, I think all it cares about is the brand (Leica), focal length (50mm) and aperture (f/2).

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

If you can’t find a suitable module, then it is down to you to apply any corrections manually.

The four tools to do that are Vignetting, Chromatic aberration, Unsharp mask and Distortion.

I wouldn’t have the slightest idea how to even begin to do that. If this was important to me, I guess I should buy a lens that PL4 already has the information for. Yesterday is the first time in maybe four or five years that I actually “needed” this lens. It creates interesting effects, but my 24mm lens isn’t wide enough.

Vignetting I can correct in PL4.
Chromatic aberration - no idea how to deal with it.
Unsharp mask - I don’t think I need to do anything here.
Distortion - using a 15mm lens on a full frame camera means everything is already distorted.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

Since there is nothing listed for Voigtlander, I guess that answers my question

At that level, you are only seeing camera makes. You need to unfold the Leica one to see what models and then what lenses are available. But I can save you the trouble – they only list Leica lenses

@mikemyers

PL4 thinks I shot the image with my Summicron

In that case, you might be better off removing the module so that PL doesn’t keep on suggesting false corrections.

In the same management dialog, tick the “Show only installed DxO Optics Modules” and remove the one it shows.

Or leave the model there for times when you when you edit a photo with the “wrong” module and simply override the four automatic lens settings. You would also need to turn off the Lens sharpness tool and use Unsharp mask instead…

Here’s a preset that you can install and apply to any picture made with an unsupported lens…

Optical Corrections only (non-Leica lenses).preset (1,0 Ko)

Either go to the Presets palette and Import it from wherever you downloaded it…

Or you can simply copy it to the Presets folder…

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

In that case, you might be better off removing the module so that PL doesn’t keep on suggesting false corrections.

In the same management dialog, tick the “Show only installed DxO Optics Modules” and remove the one it shows.

The overwhelming majority of my photos with the Leica M10 are with th 50mm lens. Occasionally I use the 35mm, and even less occasionally, the 90mm. I can manually set the camera so it “knows” I am using one of those three lenses. I have taken 10 photos total with the 15mm Voigtlander, all yesterday.

I think I can leave the Leica with appropriate settings, and on the rare times I use a Voigtlander lens, maybe import the image with no optical corrections. I may not use the 15mm again for another year or two. I certainly don’t see myself doing anything “serious” with the 15mm, as the image is so distorted due to the focal length.

[nputtick (Nigel)]

Hi - I’ve had a similar issue with an “unknown” manual lens on a dSLR. When a lens is not identified in the EXIF, DXO cannot select it and applies no lens corrections. However in your case, Leica “cheats” and puts a manually-entered lens ID in the EXIF. That’s your issue and I don’t know how to get around it. Also DXO doesn’t seem to have any profile for your Voigtander 15mm lens. As I see it you have two options.

First, it is quite likely that someone has made a Lightroom profile for this lens, as it is not that unusual to use it on a digital Leica body, so you could search the various online forums for this. If you already have Lightroom, your problem is solved

Second, use an external program such as PTlens to create a geometric/vignetting profile for it. There are articles on how to do this - for example see:

How to Make Perfect Lens Corrections with PTLens (Even With Imperfect Lenses)

Then you would do your initial RAW processing without a lens profile (I’d suggest not doing anything else that moves pixels around), export as a tiff file, apply your PT lens profile to that image, then continue editing however you choose.

[mikemyers]

@nputtick

However in your case, Leica “cheats” and puts a manually-entered lens ID in the EXIF. That’s your issue and I don’t know how to get around it.

It’s not Leica’s fault, it’s mine. Yes, Leica allows users to manually enter the lens ID for lenses made before the lens coding system was developed. I manually entered the ID number for my 50mm Summicron. But, I should have turned that off when I mounted my 15mm Voigtlander.

It’s inconvenient, but I don’t want to spend thousands of dollars each for modern Leica lenses, when I am satisfied with my old lenses. The old lens are not better or worse, just “different”, and they are also smaller and lighter.

Most of the time the 50mm Summicron is mounted on my M10, so most of the time the lens information DxO sees will be correct. I think I’m better off the optical correction pre-set when I’m using lenses that my Leica doesn’t recognize.

Thank you for the link! It sounded like PT lens was a good solution, until I read this:

" PT Lens doesn’t support working with raw image files, so I suggest you make lens correction the first step after your raw-processing workflow. That is, export a TIFF file out of Adobe Lightroom or your raw-processor of choice, then use PTLens on it before you dig into the final touches in your raster image editor."

My raw images in DxO never get converted until all my editing is done, and PT lens will be changing an image that I already thought was finished.

Any suggestions?

[nputtick (Nigel)]

Hi - as I said, to use PT lens you do have to first make a basic Raw conversion in Photolab, and export that as a tiff. Then after profile correction (which is done at pixel level by PT lens therefore can’t be done on a Raw file) you can resume your editing in Photolab, the only difference being that you can’t use Prime noise reduction, and you end up with one extra file. As you only use the Voigtlander 15mm occasionally, this shouldn’t be much of an impediment to your workflow, while ensuring you have corrected the distortion, vignetting and CA.

[mikemyers]

Thanks for the information.

Curious - which do you think is more important - editing fully in RAW, and using Deep Prime when I’m finished, or making lens corrections? for lenses unknown to DxO yet?

I want to read all the information you gave to me, so I understand these corrections better. And if that becomes a priority, I will buy PT lens for when I need it. Thank you!!

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

Curious - which do you think is more important - editing fully in RAW, and using Deep Prime when I’m finished, or making lens corrections? for lenses unknown to DxO yet?

I’m not sure why someone would use an external app to correct lens faults for unknown lenses when they can make manual corrections in PL. Admitted, they may not be optimised but, then again, neither will they be in an external app.

[mikemyers]

@Joanna

I’m not sure why someone would use an external app to correct lens faults for unknown lenses when they can make manual corrections in PL…

One of the things I’ve learned here, is that whenever possible, I keep everything in RAW format until the final export. I am far less concerned with lens corrections, unless something is obvious and it spoils the image. Joanna, I have yet to learn how to do those corrections manually, but I’m aware that it can be done. I think I should import a few images into PL4 without optical corrections, just to learn how to do it. Thanks for the reminder. As to the final export before I publish an image, whenever I have the option to do so, Deep Prime does the “finishing touches”.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

I think I should import a few images into PL4 without optical corrections, just to learn how to do it.

You don’t need to worry about having already used the automatic corrections, they on’t have done anything permanent, even though they were applied on first opening of the file. You can simply turn them off at any time and use the manual settings.

All automatic using Optics Module…

Automatic turned off and Manual available for editing…

[mikemyers]

Which setting did you change to turn off all the automatic corrections? Or do I turn off each setting individually? I see you turned off Lens Sharpness, but you left Chromatic Aberration on. Apparently I go through the settings individually.

Thanks for showing me what to do, and where.

[Joanna (Joanna Carter)]

@mikemyers

Which setting did you change to turn off all the automatic corrections? Or do I turn off each setting individually?

There is nothing to switch them all on/off, they are individual settings that can all be either automatic with the help of an Optics Module, or manual if you want to override that behaviour.

I’ve recaptured the palettes involved and added notations to them…

With Optics Module…

Manual…

• with Vignetting, you simply choose from the drop-down.
• with Lens Sharpness, this is only available if there is an Optics Module available. You should always prefer this over Unsharp Mask if that is the case, although you can use Unsharp Mask instead or in addition but it is not generally recommended.
• with Chromatic Aberration, if you can see the “sparkles” on the magic wands, then it is governed by the Optics Module and the word auto will appear in the top-right of the tool. You switch to manual by making any adjustment and/or clicking on the magic wands.
• with Unsharp Mask, this is your only sharpening choice with non-RAW files but, as I mentioned, it can be used on RAW files if you really want that extra “bite”.
• with Distortion, like with Vignetting, you use the drop-down to choose which mode you want

[mikemyers]

Thanks I will load an image, and work with each of these, one at a time.

Do you do each of these individually, one at a time, or do you just select a Preset that doesn’t apply any optics corrections?