Not strange at all! It is rather like driving a car with great performance but uncomfortable seats.
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I have no interest in the process at all I try to get the picture I want in camera with as little post as possible and that is why the localised control point are so great dodge burn tweak and move on . I dislike post with a vengeance and yes it is about the results
Mark, I’ve heard you say exactly the same words to any change, positive or negative in Photolab or other DxO software. The argument would be more credible if your reaction varied more. It’s almost as if you are entirely uncritical towards DxO and anything DxO does is for the better, thanks to their infinite wisdom. Perhaps this impression is just an accident: you carefully say nothing when a change is made which you actively dislike.
There’s no real reason to move away from on image controls. In terms of interrupting visual flow, making the sliders disappear after five or eight seconds of static mouse would be enough to allow photographers to see their changes without the sliders on top. On a very big monitor, having the controls off at the side is not particularly comfortable. Putting local controls right on top of the area which they are supposed to adjust was a huge innovation – the U-point technology. This new hybrid layer technology is not necessarily a step forward. I’m sticking with Nik 3 for awhile due to compatibility and performance issues so I’ll only find out later.
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Alec, my opinion on the change to the Nik Collection’s U-Point functionality has nothing to do with my support for DXO or PhotoLab. When I started using the Nik Collection in 2016, DXO Labs hadn’t acquired it yet. I didn’t even know DXO Labs existed and was unfamiliar with OpticsPro. Having said that, I disliked Nik’s U-Point paradigm from the start even though I loved the results I got from it.
I use a 28-in 4K monitor and I have no difficulty or discomfort using the controls In the right hand panel. All of the global controls were there already. Now the interface has a consistent look and feel. I much prefer it and look forward to DXO doing the same thing in Photolab.
As to my support for DXO, you are correct. I do strongly support their efforts which is why I decided to become a beta tester. And yes, starting in 2018 I was more willing to forgive issues with their software because they were going through a bankruptcy reorganization and I supported their efforts to help ensure they would stay in business. In some of my posts I actually indicated that as my reason for a lack of criticism for what I considered minor issues. However, If you take a look at a number of my posts on Photolab 2 you will see that I was highly critical of DXO because that release had virtually no significant enhancements in it.
There are also many other issues today that I am critical of like some of their pricing models and upgrade rules which negatively impact those who buy a product several weeks before the next version is released. Another is the lack of support for older Mac operating systems. Apple releases new operating systems so frequently it is incumbent upon software companies to offer support for more than a couple of versions if technically feasible. However, I am not a Mac user, and lack the technical competence to add my comments to those threads discussing this topic.
I like to think that my comments are even handed. I always try to look at both sides of an issue and find some middle ground that people can agree on. However if I feel strongly about something I express my opinions without reservation but try to keep hyperbole and emotion out of it.
Mark
Well said. What I don’t get, why people think that new technology and usability are not part of the same solution. The on screen vs side panel is a non argument both are just ‘ knobs’ to be used as needed and the suggestion of fading them after a certain time could be set in the preferences… any tech innovation at the engine end is fine and dandy … I was wondering if you could advise how I could get the previous version downloaded and reinstalled?
@constie,
did you ask DxO support for a download link for the previous version ( Nik 3.3 )?
-
being on Windows, I installed the old version ‘over’ the new one
→ Issues with Nik4 - #8 by Wolfgang -
some ‘comparison’ with PL’s side menue
→ About Nik 4 - SilverEfex 3 & Viveza 3 -
unfortunately SEP3 & Viv3 are incompatible with older PS versions
→ Backward Incompatibility Viveza - #2 by Wolfgang
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Thank you I’ll try that
Well, I have to agree with constie. The u points are so intuitive to learn and obviously to constie… For some of the operations, the sidebar sliders are useful and convenient. Not for burning in small areas. First of all you have to take your eye off of the point to find the slider you require, then bring your eye back to the point and hope that you haven’t let go of the slider and moved the mouse or your pointer and ended up on a different slider and adjusted the wrong thing.
What would be ideal is to be able to double-click the U point to hide its sliders and double-click again to bring them back when needed. And probably the same for the u points in PhotoLab 4 then we can all have the best of both worlds.
Prem
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I think that those who have an idea on how the U points could be improved from the sliders being on the side should create “Which feature do you need?” posting and people could vote on it and DxO could consider it. I believe that would do more to get a response and perhaps a change from DxO than the individual comments in the feedback forum. I know I am more apt to vote on a topic than get into a back and forth that goes no where.
Peace
Hi, I don’t often get into these sort of discussions but over the years I have relied heavily in the Nik Software and in particular the u’points for sustainable productivity, so I am new to this. Your suggestion is very good so I will attempt to set something up thank you
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I have read all the posts and am disappointed to see it turn into an “either or” solution rather than a “both and” solution.
I agree with adding back a collapsible slider set to the control point but also at other times like the side controls, especially with groups.
So if a poll is set up please include the option for both sets of controls to be available.
Thank you!
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After working with the new format for a couple weeks I, personally, miss the controls at the u-point. Working at the side bar means I must now look back and forth between the point and the sidebar. I realize, different strokes for different folks and that the change was supposedly necessary to make the software more flexible going forward. I’ve been using computers since 83, and supporting them professionally since 95, so I know change is inevitable and that we eventually adapt or find something that suits better. Sadly, this change has made editing less enjoyable for me.
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In strong agreement there. Similar issue with Nik 4 cutting off Photoshop CS6 plugin format. While Photoshop CS6 is old enough to abandon, due to Adobe’s cancellation of perpetual licenses, CS6 is still in widespread use among photographers. At the same time, built-in support for Photosh plugin format in CS6 allowed many other photo programs like CaptureOne to call Nik plugins. I’m mystified why DxO would want to decrease compatibility as it 1. cuts off potential customers 2. creates an atmosphere of distrust among existing users. What compatibility or what OS support will go next, we ask ourselves.
I am a Mac user. While Apple has been working hard at persuading users since Steve Jobs’ death in 2011 and OS 10.7 that annual OS upgrades – for free! no less – are a wonderful idea, most long term users know better. A two year cycle with extensive testing was far better for users and developers. The endless beta train of broken software and incompatibility only ever stops to careen occasionally off the rails. IT productivity is plummeting due to a toxic combination of these endless “upgrades” and ubiquitous social media on smart phones.
U-Point sliders in a side panel or on screen: when I began reading this thread I had a fairly neutral point of view. On serious reflection, it’s become apparent that the arguments in favour of the unique and powerful interface on top of the image carry the day for me. This interface is innovative and advanced, even futuristic. It reminds me of the transparent computer in Minority Report which Tom Cruise uses to track pre-crime.
In the hands of an expert user the original U-point interface as in Photolab is much faster and in the hands of new user, more intuitive. The intermediate user might find the dull paradigm of a side panel easier as it’s like everything else and there’s lots of space to read the controls.
What older U-point was missing was auto-fade out of the controls and the U-points when the mouse isn’t moving. That way the photographer can almost paint on the image. When the mouse moves, the controls dissolve in quickly and smoothly.
Hopefully U-points in Photolab 5 will not go the same way as in Nik 4.
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There is a very significant difference between PhotoLab and the Nik Collection. Palettes in PhotoLab can be made to float whereas the Nik Collection palettes can only be collapsed and expanded. As a result, if DXO were to move Local Adjustment sliders to the LA Palette at some point, the palette can be moved onto the preview screen to any location and collapsed if necessary to unblock portions of the image. That would allow users of Local Adjustments in PhotoLab to have the best of both worlds.
Mark
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This is an excellent idea. Surely a floating palette would be ideal.
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… and hiding it with “E” as an option
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@constie
I agree entirely with everything you said in this whole thread. The NIK collection is pretty much the only thing I use in the DxO catalog since I shoot mainly Fujifilm these days, and my camera’s sensor is not supported by PL4. I’ve been using the NIK collection since I acquired each plug-in separately (and for a great deal of money, I might add) from the original developers. Google did nothing with the collection.and DxO improved many things with it, most notably stability.
This time,though, they completely ripped out the very personality of the product, and to me, that’s definitely not a good thing.
I far prefer to work with the older UI, yet after spending some time with the evaluation version of the software, I chose to upgrade anyway. Why? Mostly because my dislike of the new UI, strong though it may be, was not a complete showstopper for me the way it was for you. Which begs the question: did you try the evaluation version of v4 before buying it? If yes, why did you still buy it? If no,why not?
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I have not purchased Nik 4 (first DxO release in a long time I have not purchased). The stability, compatibility (won’t work in PS6, won’t work in CaptureOne, etc) and performance issues (Silver Efex performance significantly worse under v4 than v3) along with the inability to easily maintain a parallel Nik 3 installation have driven me off updating. I would have preferred to have seen wider compatibility and more stability and better performance and would most certainly have updated in that case.
The interface switch is a question on which I was originally agnostic. After reading through this thread with great interest, I’ve come around to the view expressed above. Interface on top of image is a huge innovation which DxO very intelligently acquired but is now in the process of throwing away.
Every once in a while a great technical innovation is not properly appreciated and goes on to make another company a great fortune. One can categorise Steve Jobs’ acquisition of the Xerox Park GUI interface which turned into first Lisa (failure) and then Mac OS. Xerox did nothing with the technology the creation of which they had financed. I can easily imagine Adobe circling back with an on image interface in four or five years, touting it as a great innovation, during which DxO will have wholly adopted the mediocre and stagnant side panel interface.
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To answer you question the reason was Trust. My experience with DXO has been positive, and because I don’t create the image in the computer, they offered me a one stop shop and a great work flow. As a result when I saw the web links with new upgrades the Adjustors are shown in full view ( I have the screen grabs) so it never occurred to me that they would remove them. Then came the issue of delay between adjustments and on screen results… The new software with the DXO PHOTO LAB ELITE and ON1 are the only applications on a brand new Mac Book Pro with 64 Ram and the whole thing is significantly slower that the previous version on a 2015 Mac Book Pro with only 8 Ram and a stack of applications the dilemma now is can I get them to provide me with a link to download the old version and wait for future updates or ask for my money back and move on to something like ON1 which at least works on the new hardware
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I second that. Trust. I purchased v4 for the same reasons (and, yeah, the product has gotten less responsive - I have 32GB of RAM on my 27" iMac). Had I wanted sliders in the sidebar and slower performance I could have stuck with On1 or Skylum - both of which I now seem to have a bit less reason to ignore.
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