Nikon D850 RAW M-Size resolution is not recognized correctly

Does not detect the correct size in D850 RAW MSize images.
The correct size is 6192x4128, and DxO detects 7074x4716.
The resulting images are much less sharp than with LR or NX Studio.

To my knowledge PL doesn’t support M or S-size Raw files.

DxO is correct. Capture One also says 7074 × 4716 (RAW M) or 6192 × 4128 (RAW S). So, Nikon claims in the D850 settings your values. I say, they just messed up the menu text. Or you set your D850 to RAW S (that’s what Capture One tells me).

But Capture One, Affinity Photo (7104 × 4728), Iridient developer (7072 × 4712), Pixelmator Pro (7074 × 4716) and good ole Graphic Converter (7104 × 4728) are closer to DxO than Nikon. My guess is, in one of their firmware updates they changed the output size, but not the menu text. Although I find it fascinating that 4 apps come to different sizes than two (C1 and PL)

Out of interest: For what did you buy a 45.7 MP body if you reduce the output by reducing it to 33.36 MP? or 25.56 MP? It’s the same sensor, so the image quality will suffer by scaling it down. Or did you try to crank up the ISO and downscale the RAW in camera? I’m afraid Nikon’s noise reduction is less refined than DeepPrime.

Now, soon we jump into a New Year, so start it well, Alfredo @AGL

I just ran a couple of test on my Nikon D850 and found that, whatever combination of size (S, M or L) and compression, PL seems only too happy to read them.

What is odd is…

Size Camera Finder / PL5 ExifTool
Large 8256 x 5504 8256 x 5504 8288 x 5520
Medium 6192 x 4128 7074 x 4716 7104 x 4728
Small 4128 x 2752 6912 x 4128 6216 x 4136

It would seem that the camera menu sizes are crudely worked out by taking the full size and calculating Medium as ¾ and Small as ½ of that size. I am pretty sure the menu sizes are fictional rather than actual.

Maybe you @Joanna can answer my question about the purpose of various RAW output file sizes (Z 7 has exactly the same). That’s a bit opposite of what we learnt about RAW, being the format with the most unaltered sensor information in it. Why is Nikon running some scaling calculations and calls the result RAW?

That’s a very good question. I haven’t a clue and had never considered it, possibly because I have only ever used the Large size, except for when I use the DX crop mode to “extend” my telephoto lenses.

From a quick search on t’interweb, it would seem that the smaller sizes are simply pixel scaled but still the RAW data of art is left. Eeeuugh! I’m sticking with full size - my card takes 635 such images (uncompressed) so I’m not exactly worried about file size.

Same here. I like the full size to crop and maybe downsize later. And if image quality is no priority, I rather prefer using JPGs out of camera. Occasionally I could use smaller output proportions, like when reproducing 4½×6 negatives are equal to 4/3. So, instead of getting thousands of unused MP it would have been cool to see a proportion like 3:4, as there’s 5:4, 2:3 and 1:1. But I recall I once tried the 5:4 on a D7100. Result were pink stripes in the picture Capture One was displaying (“unsupported RAW format”). Camera and lens producers increasingly rely on software (lens-correction, RAW conversion and so on) and should rather find an agreement with the software developers instead of coming up with more unsupported stuff.

Hi,

I’m one of the extraterrestrial who sometimes use the M size on my Z7 (same sensor size as D850)!

Usually I’m full size, but for images which do not require (to my taste) such big files (ie family which are not portraits) I put the M size to get a 28 mix picture which is still with good quality and benefit from all other qualities of the Z7 sensor.
And corrections and jpeg creation in DPL are quicker and take less space.

I know @Joanna that it’s not a concern for you but after thousands of raw I found un useful to take larger space than necessary.
And BTW, as I think I already mention that, Lossless compression for NEF is really lossless so no quality compromise, and space savers and quicker response with software and network transferts…
In case you don’t know there are already some Nikon camera in which uncompressed raw are not available anymore, and Z9 is offering new compression rate without or were very very few loss.
And again, everyone takes its own choices…

Pixel dimensions as shown by @Joanna are one thing. They are the ones officially advertised by Nikon. The number of pixels that actually exist is slightly different though. A few converters can convert a few extra pixel rows and columns that are discarded in other converters. Also, optical corrections can change pixel dimensions, depending on how an un-distorted image is cropped (original or unconstrained).

Results can look different indeed, but results depend on which app does the job and how the respective internal and user settings are.

@AGL, as a first time user of the forum, you cannot yet post example conversions without restrictions. For future use, posting example output and settings files can help us to comment on whatever might compromise your output. Keep reading more posts to get your status promoted.

Thanks for the info. This is new to me. :flushed: :smiley:

Hmmm, if I delete two full size D850 lossless compressed RAWs, I gain 110 MB. That’s 4 non-deleted RAW-S (25 MB). I’m super anxious, when it comes to family photos. Aunts need to know, if they have more wrinkles. And if I can’t show them the wrinkle of the wrinkle of the wrinkles (you get the picture?) they look at me as if I disrespected them.

Same for me, that’s why I wrote:

:relaxed:

I don’t have much to add here but I have thought about this before and someone that said “why are these reduced files considered raw” is the question I have asked too.

In order to reduce the resolution the images have to be demosaiced first in the camera. Are they then re-mosaiced? Or does it just become a high bit depth RGB file?

Anyway these mRAW and sRAW files can hardly be called raw but that’s what the marketing guys call them.

I guess it’s because you have all the possibilities and can make the same adjustments you can make with a “pure” RAW.
For me, what it’s called is the least important thing.

Mike

Some mRaw or sRaw are not really raw, and as such are not supported by DPL, and the first available from Nikon were like that.

But new mRaw and sRaw are now proposed by Nikon which are plenty Raw only of reduced size. And these ones are fully supported as raw by DPL included Deep prime denoising.

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Just with RAW M-Size:
LRC, Nikon NX and FastStone viewer reads 6192x4128.
Capture One and DxO reads 7074x4716

If I go to 100%, DxO looks closer than LR and NX, but less sharp, I guess because of the “rescaling” process.