The problem maybe that you are renaming a virtual copy in PL5 instead of renaming the master.
Here’s a screenshot of me copying the original files (with pipe) from their original folder to the exporting folder…
Now, I open the NEF file from the export folder…
In PL5, I rename the master copy…
… with the result that both the NEF file and the DOP file are renamed correctly and the reference to the NEF inside the DOP file is also changed…
Aha! Makes sense. Me bad.
Next time I will make sure to use the (M)aster file, as viewed from inside of PL5.
You are obviously an excellent file detective! Thanks for solving the puzzle.
MacOS (and Windows I assume) see one file, but PL5 sees separate Master file and some number of Virtual Copies of that Master. I never considered that before.
some observations
To make sure there is no error on my side, I reloaded some files (with the " | " character) and got
as explained in full length: Windows drops the incompatible " | " …
showing up as
the first two of the mountains ( → dop-file NOT recognized ) show up without development
[disregard my Standard preset for newly imported files]
the pic of the goat and the crane show up with development
Then I reloaded the so-called Windows version from
to get
the dop-file wasn’t renamed by Windows, but also NOT recognized … to show up without development
I copied those files into 2 new folders “Mike_Win” and “Mike_Windows” and renamed
the dop-file
the nef-file
.
Both now show up with development.
BUT – the “Original” and “Windows-compatible” dop-files are different versions !
- in the “Original” you changed the development in the VC
- in the “Windows-compatible” the VCs are an unaltered copy of M.
If I may suggest, keep off this renaming business.
On the one hand, I completely agree with that - as I have no Windows computer to even verify that the results are correct.
@Wolfgang, could @Joanna’s explanation, that I used a VC and not the Master, be the reason for this?
Later today I will select another file, for which there is no VC, and follow Joanna’s instructions again. Maybe it’s a waste of time, but this SHOULD work, assuming Joanna’s instructions are complete and correct - which I suspect is the case.
Also, while searching for the “|” character on Windows, I found this:
Creating the | symbol on a U.S. keyboard
On English PC and Mac keyboards, the pipe is on the same key as the backslash key. It is located above the Enter key (Return key) and below the Backspace key. Pressing and holding down the Shift while pressing the | creates a pipe.
This leaves me wondering, if the | character causes issues with Windows, why is it available on Windows computers? Would I get an error message if I used that character while renaming a file?
I’m only doing the “renaming business” to make my uploaded files work for Windows users. I guess I need to get my Lenovo laptop working, and try it myself. I’m perfectly willing to forget all this, but I don’t want to change the file naming on my own computers, which I’ve used for perhaps ten years? I’ve used the pipe character ever since the benefits were explained to me in a web article about using Photo Mechanic. …having said that, had I not made the (in retrospect) mistake of using a VC, not the Master, Joanna’s instructions ought to work fine for Windows users in this forum - that it’s extra work for me, is no big deal. >>>IF<<< it makes it easier for you and other Windows users, I’ll do it from now on. I will replace the | with a - which ought to work for you.
(I did try to follow what you just posted, but I got lost. Maybe all will be well as long as I don’t rename a VC file, which is apparently what I stupidly did last time. Sorry…)
I selected another image I took in Fellsmere.
I edited it in PL5, and saved an export.
I used the “rename” tool in PL5 to replace the | with a - .
I closed PL5.
Here are the files - this should work for both Windows and Mac users:
MM2_1503 - 2022-06-07.nef (29.1 MB)
MM2_1503 - 2022-06-07.nef.dop (12.2 KB)
I didn’t do much editing, and I don’t like the image, but it is fine for this test.
I seem to have an unusually strong ability to make mistakes.
That means there may still be something else that needs fixing, that I’m not (yet) aware of.
@Wolfgang, I followed through each step you documented, and after several tries, it all makes sense. Apparently renaming the raw file automatically renames the .dop file? Does that happen instantly, or only when I close PL5?
Thank you for going through all that process to allow me to fully understand (better) what is happening, and why. Maybe I need new glasses or better yet, a new brain with a better CPU…
Damm it. READ THE ARTICLE!!!.
George
quickly referring to
the downloaded files look like this
keeping their name
and show up like this
w/ crop + watermark = with development → recognizing the dop-file
note
As explained in full length ( check the aforesaid posts and linked articles ! )
the " | " character/symbol is incompatible with Windows.
It’s keyboard position et al is completely irrelevant.
The | sign and most of the shifted keys above the numbers on a QWERTY keyboard are not usable in file names under Windows. They certainly can be used in editors. I.e. word and notepad. I do not know about the MAC.
I read several articles.
I have learned that we should not use the pipe symbol in file names under Windows.
I don’t yet understand what Windows does when someone tried to open a filename that contains a pipe symbol. If I understood correctly, Windows ignores it, as if there was nothing there, but with what you are saying, and what I read here:
https://superuser.com/questions/1493486/invalid-pipe-character-in-file-name
…it goes beyond that.
More good reading:
https://www.mtu.edu/umc/services/websites/writing/characters-avoid/
Understood now, but back when I used Windows, I never even thought of this.
George I apologize. I’m not sure I need to understand all that stuff I just posted. All I really need to know is what @Joanna wrote, for me to “fix” filenames that I might post here. I’m shocked though by that last link I posted - but it makes sense I guess.
Great - then this worked, and I’ll post filenames this way from now on.
Problem already solved, and this will be my workaround.
Possible suggestion:
Maybe a future update of PhotoLab should ban filename characters that are not allowed in any of the popular operating systems?
To @George -
Yes, I read the link, got lost, read it again, got lost again, and just looked at it again now. Yes, it does tell us that for Windows, we should not use the | character, which is the basis of this whole discussion.
But it doesn’t provide the answer to what I was wondering about.
=============
Use any character in the current code page for a name, including Unicode characters and characters in the extended character set (128–255), except for the following:
(greater than)
=============
That is all well and good, but no place that I could find explains what will happen when Windows encounters one of those characters in a file name. I incorrectly thought Windows would simply ignore the character, as if it wasn’t there, which didn’t make sense.
When you have time, if you don’t mind doing so, please tell me what the Windows computer will do when it does encounter the pipe symbol in a file name. I’m curious, but other than that, I have no need to know. I know now not to do it, and that’s probably enough.
Enough. Sorry for all the confusion.
First of all, these special characters aren’t a subject of discussion,they’re an item of information.
How windows deals when these characters are wrongly used is unknown. It’s not part of the logics of windows or any software when using some characters wrongly.
In your case since you insist on using that character, that character is replaced by a blank. But don’t rely on it.
Isn’t it time to go one?
George
Yes, I have been using that character for many years, long before I ever heard of PhotoLab. I have no desire to change because of an incompatibility with an OS that I no longer use, especially so now that @Joanna has posted a simple work-around.
If I correctly understood @Wolfgang, the pipe character also prevented PhotoLab from working as intended. That’s the reason for all this discussion.
As for me, I wholeheartedly agree - move on!!!
If Wolfgang is happy, so am I. 
The reason I outlined the renaming procedure that I did was because the DOP file holds a reference to the original file in the master version. On a Mac, if that name is not changed at the same time as the file names, PL5 will not be able to link the DOP to the appropriate original file.
Here are the four “name” tags from your DOP file after I renamed the virtual copies…
…
Name = "MM2_1484 | 2022-05-28.nef",
…
Name = "Virtual Copy 1.nef",
…
Name = "Virtual Copy 2.nef",
…
Name = "Joanna.nef",
The important one is the first one. This is the name of the original file and it is this that gets changed at the same time as the names of the NEF and DOP files when you rename the master in PL5.
The virtual copy names are not real files, they just follow the same naming convention as the master.
Unfortunately, Windows has always been an inferior operating system, with all sorts of things that don’t “just work” like macOS does.
Whatever you do, don’t even dream of changing your file naming convention just for the sake of posting examples here. Just use the workaround.
Well, I thought I understood this, but from what you just posted, I wasn’t aware of “how” it worked.
I have no intention of changing my file naming convention, but I realize that since I’ll be creating a Windows-compatible folder, and when @Wolfgang edits one of my images, and posts a version that he has edited, I need to save his file in the same Windows folder where I store the files I sent him.
Long ago, I used CP/M, and then MP/M. That led to Unix, which led to Linux. Then Windows XP, 7, 8, 10, and whatever they’re up to now. MacOS felt comfortably similar to UNIX and Linux. At the time Windows 10 was coming out, I was quite comfortable with it, but MacOS bumped everything else I had off the table, and Windows now feels like a foreign language to me.
Life is simpler for me now. My Leica gear is gathering dust, as is my Df. My D750 now feels like it is part of me, or vice versa.
In Colorado, I helped my friend Susie buy the 600mm Tampon, and I found where I can buy one like-new for “only” $1,000. In Colorado I also got to try out a monopod (will take me some time to get used to) and two of Nikon’s new mirrorless cameras (ugh!). In all probability, I’m done buying new stuff. I already have all I need. I expect to be back in India this summer, and will be traveling with my repaired D750. I helped the hospital I volunteer at to buy two refurbished D750 cameras direct from Nikon. Life is fun!
How Windows drops the " | " symbol is explained in → post #314 and #316,
while it cannot repair → a broken reference.
It’s strange, that some of your files let me see your editings and others don’t,
inspite of both coming with the very same " | " symbol.
Maybe you have been handling files different, e.g.
Just make sure, your files are compatible.
If the last files I posted of the two bushes in front of a blurry background work for you, that is what I will try to post from now on, in addition to my Mac files. If you had any issues with that last image, please let me know now, before I upload anything more.
My previous images mostly came from my Mac Mini, other than some photos from Colorado and Fellsmere that came from my MacBook Pro. At some point I copied the entire file area from Colorado from my MacBook Pro to my Mac Mini, and that is what I used since then. My newest images from Fellsmere all came from my MacBook Pro. The last image is what you can expect from now on. Nobody is complaining (yet) so maybe all is well - and @Joanna gave me here unlimited warranty/guarantee that it will work perfectly! Well, not really, but I trust her far more than I trust myself!
You use the phrase “blurry background” as if it’s a bad thing. Background blur is a creative tool used by photographers to isolate and enhance the main subject so it doesn’t get lost within the background.
Mark
It is a reserved character used for very specific purposes in Windows and as a result cannot be used as part of a file name. That is just the way it is in Windows.
Mark
Mark, yep, I did all that deliberately, focusing on the foreground and seeing the background blur out, which is what I wanted. When I wrote what I did, I didn’t intentionally mean it as a “bad thing”, and to be honest, I was pleased that I got what I wanted. …but seeing it later, on my computer screen, even with the lovely colors I wanted to capture I don’t think much of the image. I’m not disappointed in the blurred background, but I am disappointed in the end result. Two scrawny plants in the foreground aren’t enough to peak anyone’s interest - IMHO - but who knows, @Joanna will probably find a way to make this into an interesting photo.
I don’t wonder “why I took it”, as a huge percentage of my photos are taken just to see if I can do it well, and I guess I accomplished what I wanted - but while I love the photo of the two cranes walking in the pond, this image doesn’t do much for me - other than to use it as a test image for Windows users to download.
After all this discussion, I’ll remember that forever!
…but I had no idea that Windows doesn’t allow it in a file name.
…and now I see there are a large number of other characters that Windows doesn’t accept.
Very sad - many years ago, I was quite comfortable using Windows, and I’ve forgotten most of it.
Back to the photos, I have one more image I’d like to post, a close-up of a rabbit where I can see myself reflected in the rabbit’s eye. Maybe tomorrow. Time now for sleep.
Thanks, to you, and everyone else involved in this discussion. ZZZzzzzz…