Apple Raw, Apple M1 Universal??
My be the biggest change for most of us, struggling to see any thing of use in 5 I regret.
Have a look at Robin Whalleyâs review of v5 of PhotoLab
You are jokingđ
It seems to me that Apple struggles to make the best software they can, and updates are always free. I used to worry about updates - no more. When Apples says there is an update, I install it - on all my devices.
I would think that DxO when releasing a new product, would concentrate on the latest one or two releases of OS software.
I do have some old Apple computers, that still work, but canât be updated to their latest macOS, and I accept that. For me, PL5 will go on my Mac Mini desktop and my MacBook Pro, and Iâll move my copies of PL4 to my older computers that I believe are on PL3.
When companies update, there are always some complaints, as a lot of people donât want to update. I guess itâs like the newest Nikon Z lenses, that wonât work on the Nikon F mount, and as far as I know, there are no adapters.
The problem in all this is when people have old computers, that canât be updated, and new software wonât run on the ancient macOS on those computers. And for me, I guess new software might be coming out that requires Appleâs new chip, and wonât run on Apple Intel chip computers, like my Mac Mini. At some point I guess Iâll need to update, but not until all the software I want/need runs on Appleâs new chip.
Iâm just rambling, I guess. I got PL5 installed, and then got it validated, and later tonight I hope to get a chance to use it. 
Oh, and Iâm curious - does PL5 run on Windows 11 ?
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PL 5 does indeed run on Windows 11.
Any news on Photolab 6?
Apple is on a one year cycle releasing half-broken beta crap every year. There is no reason There is absolutely no reason for DxO to enforce Appleâs cycle on its users.
Apple struggles to make the best software they can
The best software they can would mean a two-year cycle on OS updates. The frenetic update release cycle is for marketing reasons, and highly destructive of stability and abusive of users time. Apple is the worldâs richest company. Why are you making excuses for their poor work, Mike? Apple simply does not want to invest enough in their programming team to maintain quality (good engineers are expensive and hard to find, itâs easier to hire huge second-rate teams and let quality go to the dogs).
We are the people who support DxO not Apple. Itâs a bunch of spoiled developers refusing to work on anything except the latest OS. The main reason DxO canât support back to OS 10.13 (High Sierra) is not so much the changes to OS X but because it would mean keeping at least one developerâs computer on OS 10.14 to create the build.
Companies who treat themselves better than they treat their customers, often wake up to a bucket of cold water poured on their high opinion of themselves.
I just canât believe all the tech junkies here making excuses for Apple and DxO. Just have to have the latestâŠTim Cook saysâŠ
Apple MacBook users have had to put up with four or five years of broken by design butterfly keyboards and portless MacBooks and no MagSafe and the inefficient TouchBar function keys. Apple four or five years later finally had to admit all of those decisions were wrong and destructive to their users. Not to speak of the debacle of the Trash Can Mac Pro of 2013 which overheats and burns out while the Silver Towers of 2009-2012 still run well and can accept inexpensive PCIe cards instead of ludicrously expensive outboard Thunderbolt accessories.
But this is not about Apple. Apple is free to abuse their users as they wish. This is about DxO treating us, their users with disdain, and maintaining the worst OS compatibility of all the major photo software producers.
I hope itâs worth it DxO @StevenL as right now you donât have my money for PL5, you no longer have my respect and youâve lost my advocacy. CaptureOne is likely to get my PhotoLab 5 upgrade money very soon and if I like it, they will benefit from my enthusiasm and my advocacy instead of PhotoLab.
Well, Iâm not making âexcusesâ, Iâm just saying what I think. Before I switched to Apple, I ran Windows, and there were constant updates. Before anything, I had a Nokia phone, which also had many updates - but some of those updates âbrokeâ my phone.
Iâm not going to make any excuses for Apples junk MacBooks with no ports and a miserable keyboard - I voted with my wallet, and Iâm still running my 2015 MacBook Pro. It seems like they have finally listened.
I used to work for a software company in a previous life, and they/we were constantly releasing updates, far more than once a year. I got moved to âtech supportâ searching for bugs, and I was good at it I think. As we found bugs, they were fixed/patched/updated⊠I have no complaints with Apple updating their macOS yearly, but it seems I am constantly getting notices to down load updates - as they find bugs, the fix them, not waiting a full year.
I have no idea what DxO does, or doesnât, but having gone through so, so many editors, I finally found PhotoLab, and for ME, itâs the best there is. Yeah, I spent over $100 for the update, but what I paid is less than what I expected - and I donât yet even know what is different between PL4 and PL5, except for the fact that they FINALLY will work with images from my Fuji camera with the X-Trans sensor. If that was the ONLY change they made, I would still have gladly bought PL5.
Meanwhile, I suppose I have a choice of macOS, Windows, or Linux. And I have access to Apple Tech Support, and when I have a problem, they connect to my computer and figure out what is wrong. I never, ever, got anything like that from Windows.
Anyway, Iâm not making excuses for Apple - most of the time, I like what they do, and an older OS can still be used today - I have a 2012 MacBook Pro, that is so old I canât update it at all. Regardless, it is still running smoothly, although I rarely use that computer.
Sometimes I wonder how large a company DxO is, and how many software engineers they have working on these things. Personally, I think theyâre doing quite well, with a much smaller staff. And keep in mind that DxO offers a complete, NEW, release, and we are free to take our copies of PL4 and even PL3 and use them on other computers, if we have that many.
Oh well, I hope Iâm not sounding argumentative, Iâm just saying that I have a different way of seeing things, and Iâm certainly not going to switch to a different image editor because of these things. (I started computing with IBM Punch Cards, and my expectations are much lower than other peopleâs expectationsâŠ)
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Computers from 2012 can run Catalina, systems from 2013 can run Big Sur. I donât want DxO being stopped from using modern APIs and other MacOS features because a few dinosaurs are too stubborn to move on from a 3 year old OS. If youâre following your 2 year upgrade cycle suggestion doesnât that mean you should have moved on to Catalina by now?
I have used every version of MacOS since Tiger, some were better than others, but for the most part they have all be very useable. I feel like youâre just reading what Apple âinfluencersâ complain about. TouchBar was great, and I miss it, losing a Thunderbolt port for a HDMI port on the new machines is dumb. I agree the butterfly keyboards were bad.
My M1 MacBook Air has been flawless, and if losing compatibility for old versions of MacOS helps me get better support for my M1 into PhotoLab Iâm all for it.
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Or: a few people who are not concerned by the race for novelty; and above all, who need macOS Mojave (for exemple) to run certain specific software.
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To me is more about âsymmetryâ: using an old OS (for any valid reason) but also wanting to run the latest and greatest applications, is not going to workâŠThis may work for a year or two, but at some point youâll face, again and again, the same problem, each time.
This is a âtrade offâ that you automatically sign for as soon as you buy a computer/softwareâŠ
Continuously upgrading is the new normal, and if you âstopâ you are automatically âleft behindâ.
Not saying this is great, but this is the (IT) reality.
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In that case, if you donât want to run two physical computers, you can always use something like Parallels to create a Mojave virtual machine to run the older software on the same box.
Et câest prĂ©cisĂ©ment pourquoi je vais restĂ© tranquillement « left behind » et que vous avez perdu un client (fidĂšle).
Câest sans doute plus ennuyeux pour vous que pour moi, qui vais faire des Ă©conomies bienvenuesâŠ
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Mike is comparing Apple to Windows. Itâs like the guy in the gulag archipelago being moved to a conventional prison â it seems like paradise to him. Hot food, heated rooms. For those of us who have been on Apple for decades and who enjoyed the freedom and stability of OS X while Steve Jobs was alive (from OS 10.3 to 10.6.8 with a couple of decent releases afterwards in 10.8 and 10.11) and while the Mac was still on a two-year release cycle â the current one year release cycle and dumbed down OS is like being moved from Vienna or Paris or Moscow (all great cities) to a conventional prison.
Hereâs the deal Steven, we understand that the latest PhotoLab is not going to support six versions back of the OS. But thatâs a poor excuse not to support the last three or four. When OS X was on a two year release cycle, supporting two OS was just about justified. Now that weâre on a one year release cycle, it simply shows an incredible lack of respect for your customers and your customersâ time. DxO will pay for this policy of cutting off customers early.
Just because âeveryone elseâ (i.e. Adobe and Apple) does it is no excuse for bad behaviour. DxO is a small company. You have to take care of your customers and woo them if you want to grow. Those two didnât become industry giants by blowing off customers. Ethically, the âeveryone elseâ argument is weak justification for bad behaviour, whether for school children or software developers.
@Skagoat Well thatâs some loaded language there âdinosaursâ. Last time I checked dinosaurs roamed the world 500 million to 65 million years ago. To minimise down time and software conflicts, most edit studios and creative people have kept their OS two to three cycles back. I.e. as Big Sur is the current release, edit studios would be on High Sierra or Mojave. This was back when OS were on a two-year cycle btw. I.e. the life cycle support for professional software was at least three cycles which worked out to six years, not two. Effectively DxO has chosen to place PhotoLab in the category of non-professional software.1
Itâs only naive and primitive consumers thirsty for the latest pointless hype who are foolish enough to install brand new OS.
Iâm not sure if in your breathless Apple fandom you noticed but PhotoLab is a cross-platform app. As a cross-platform app, PhotoLab is rarely using the latest technology from either OS but rather independent libraries which run equally well on both platforms and probably quite successfully support OS back to 10.13 High Sierra still.
The minimum support which DxO should be providing here is for Mojave. DxO would have a good case this year to drop High Sierra support. At PhotoLab 4âs release, DxO should not have dropped High Sierra yet either. That meant cutting off all the 2011 MacBook Pros (EOL on High Sierra). I made some noise then, hoping that DxO might pay attention for PhotoLab 5. Last time was in some ways worse, as PhotoLab 3 was a real dog, adding good features to PhotoLab 2 (healing brush) but which simply didnât work well with very serious performance issues. PhotoLab 4 at least is a solid release, albeit with weak points in masking and colour manipulation, which seem to have been mostly fixed in PhotoLab 5.2
Itâs not that DxO has to support Sierra and High Sierra forever, itâs that DxO is at least one OS ahead of where it should be in removing support.
But fine DxO makes its own choices. Choices have consequences however.3
- Counter example: latest version FCPX usually requires the latest OS -1. FCPX belongs to Apple. Appleâs mission is to sell more computers and push people onto their latest services. The economics justify abusing its users. DxO does not share in Appleâs revenue so following this model is just silly.
- Donât misunderstand me. Iâm enthusiastic about the new features and really want to use them. I even have a bunch of Fuji X-Trans images which Iâd like to dig into with PhotoLab 5. Iâm not one of the people who doesnât think PhotoLab 5 is a solid release in terms of features even if thereâs still some real pain points DxO has not addressed. Thereâs no support for either iPhone or Android DNG which is a clear own goal. Most photographers have high end mobiles and shoot quite a bit on their iPhone or Pixel. Weâd like to be able use the same tool to work on those images which we use to work on our dedicated camera images, knowing full well that the results will not be the same.
- CaptureOne offers much better masking and colour manipulation than even PhotoLab 5. Weâll see what the system requirements look like for C1 22 (C1 21 supports 10.13 High Sierra, it wouldnât surprise me if C1 didnât move the OS requirement forward this time as PhaseOne knows that it cuts off some still popular computers). Perhaps Iâll be a PhaseOne customer going forward, only leaning on PhotoLab for noise reduction for high ISO images. What I wonât be doing is running my main applications in virtual machines with the performance penalties and problems with file management that entails.
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The whole discussion is silly. If DXO still supported Mojave this year, support would then be removed next year. Then you would have to replace your machines only next yearâŠwow
C1 will probably remove support for Mojave next year. They wonât support it forever either.
A year is nothing to you? You are a lucky manâŠ
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Every year it is the same old refrain 
If I chose macOS it is exactly because Apple is going forward instead of building on the same old bricks like MS does with Windows.
Even on the hardware side Apple is now taking the lead and leaving Intel behind.
Old computer, old OS, old sofware or limited functionalities. Thatâs it, there is no miracles and you know it perfectly well.
Many people complain about performances and M1 native App⊠and on the other side⊠people want new functionalities with old architecture.
Donât you see the nonsense ? đ”âđ«
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I apologize for not being as superiorly modern, as wonderfully reasonable as you 
Iâll stop the discussion here, and Iâll go take care of photography on my obsolete equipment.
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