- 2022 Processing High Dynamic Range Photos in PhotoLab 5 - Part One, Fireworks

DxO PhotoLab
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Dear all,

thank you very for all your great feedback and recommendations. Much appreciated!
@mikemyers @Wolfgang @platypus @Joanna @rrblint
I think my m43 sensor sets some limits to the total dynamic range I can capture and I shot in auto-exposure mode. So the RAW is not the optimum that could have been achieved. However I found out that my settings in PL are mainly responsible for the burned highlights around the sun. I applied heavy exposure adjustments employing the global smart lighting option. As a consequence, control of the highlight regions around the sun was difficult. I was happy to learn that I can much better control the bright spot with the spot smart lightning option. Haven’t used it much before, but I will definitely try to include it much more in my editing workflow.

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As I understand it, this is an impossible photo to capture. The sun is just far too bright, and with no clouds for the sun to go behind, there is no way to do it. Joanna’s filter might get a useable photo of sun, but everything else will be lost.

Maybe next time do some bracketing, both of the scene, and of the sun, and maybe you’ll be able to superimpose a “better” sun on top of the burned out sun.

But you don’t want to risk damaging your eye, or your camera’s sensor. Without a filter of some sort to block most of the light from the sun, I don’t think it’s possible.

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Sorry Mike, THIS is nonsense. The sun is bright and can be seen like any other highlights.

What one can try – set a ‘radial’ filter (chroma + luma set to 0) right onto the sun and increase brightness to conceal the hotspot. But in the given jpg @chris43, it looks alright. The ‘fog’ acts already as a soft filter.

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Situation - bright sunny day, with sun clearly in picture.

I have never taken a photo like this, without the sun being burnt out.

I’ll keep my mind open on this, and wait for someone to prove me wrong.

And please don’t damage your eyes or sensor in trying to prove me wrong.

Added later:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-and-solutions/how-to-photograph-the-sun

Safety First

DO NOT look at the sun with your naked eyes. Permanent damage to your eyesight, and even blindness, may result. ALWAYS wear certified solar viewing glasses when viewing the sun. We have all glanced at the sun, but prolonged exposure causes permanent damage.

DO NOT point a camera at the sun unless the optics are fitted with a certified solar filter. Optics can magnify the intensity and brightness of sunlight, and this can cause damage to your equipment. There are many myths about the sun and its ability to destroy a camera, so we did some testing to see what the danger was. Check out the results here.

DO NOT look through the viewfinder of an unfiltered SLR camera when it is pointed at or near the sun because of the increase in intensity and brightness of the sunlight passing through magnifying optics. If using a dark ND filter, you should still not use the optical viewfinder of the camera.

DO NOT look through the viewfinder of a rangefinder camera when it is pointed at or near the sun, because the optical viewfinder will not protect your eyes from the sun’s damaging light.

DO NOT point an unfiltered digital camera at the sun and use live view or an electronic viewfinder, due to the possibility of damaging the sensor with concentrated, unfiltered sunlight. Our tests did not damage the sensor in our camera, but we cannot guarantee that other atmospheric or physical conditions will have the same result.

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I thought it would be fun to post this here - I got another email from ON1, sending me to this video, which I then opened on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLfzzANb5Vk

I greatly prefer what I’ve learned in this forum.

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Yeeeuugghgh!!!

So much easier in PL

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Today has been very frustrating - one after another, things I at least accepted about my cameras and photography were way off base. Two things in particular bothered me, one about my choice of cameras, and the other about how I take (or should I say, took) photographs.

We’ve had lots of discussions here about different types of cameras, and why I’m so attracted to Leica, which nowadays seems to be rich people’s jewels, to be showed off. Selecting a camera in this forum seems to be finding a camera with the greatest dynamic range, and other similar qualities. Back when I was shooting Leicas, when they were just ordinary cameras, I had other things in mind. Back then, they were “tools”, not “jewels”. This article I read this morning really hit home:
shutter lag time and photography
This article pointed out something I’ve been aware of, but never thought of a good way to explain here. Quoting:
On top right area of the Leica M3D-2 is the shutter release button, with a shutter lag time of only 12 ms, a side in which this mirrorless with rangefinder camera built 59 years ago clearly outperforms superb professional digital full frame present dslr cameras like the Nikon D800, Nikon D800E, Nikon D4, Nikon D4s, Nikon D850, Canon EOS 1DX, Canon EOS 5D Mark III, mirrorless full frame digital cameras without rangefinder like the Sony A7III, Sony Alpha 7R III, Sony Alpha 7S, Sony Alpha 9 and others, Fujifilm mirrorless X series cameras like the Fuji XT-2, X-Pro 2, XH-1 featuring excellent APS-C X-Trans sensors and mirrorless Micro Four Thirds top of the line cameras like the Olympus EM-1 Mark II, E-M5 Mark II, Pen-F, Panasonic Lumix DC-GH5K, Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4K, Panasonic Lumix DC-G9 and many others.

This incredibly short shutter lag (time elapsed between the instant in which the photographer presses the shutter release button and the exact moment when the exposure is made ) has been one of the historical hallmarks of the Leica M mirrorless with rangefinder System and a trait (among many others) of invaluable help which has enabled a high percentage of the best photographers in history to get with them many iconic images having defined the evolution of XX and XXI centuries, with a commendable transition from 24 x 36 mm format analogue models to digital ones with identical philosophy, handling, very small dimensions and weight for their full frame sensors and beautiful timeless classicism of lines like the Leica M9, Leica M9 Titanium, M9-P, Monochrom, Leica M Type 241, Leica M10 and so forth. "

I don’t know the shutter lag time on any of my cameras nowadays, but on my original Leica M3 and M2, it was incredibly short.

So, what is the shutter lag time of all these new cameras? What I found by searching is not very encouraging. Shutter lag: Shutter lag

I guess this is meaningless when applied to landscape photography, but in sports photography and people trying to catch the perfect moment, it is important.

The second thing I was thinking about, is when I first started using PhotoLab, long before I found this forum. All I can say about my results is “ugh!!!” This is back when I was still shooting ‘jpg’ (stupid, I should have known better by then) and when my favorite do-anything tool was DxO “ClearView”. This is before Joanna and everyone else beat it into my head that I was making my images even worse.

I picked one of my images from back then, deleted everything I originally did, and tried again. I sort of like the result, but it could have been so much better if I knew then what I’ve learned here in this forum. Yeah, it’s like spilt milk. Too late. Learn, and do better next time.

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(Very small part of an image from my old Fuji X100s, as humming birds were buzzing all over my head, even landing on it, and messing with my ears and hair. The Fuji is so quiet the birds ignored it, unlike my friend’s huge Nikon which scared them away. Photo 1/4000th at f/8, ISO 3200.)

Oh, and any thoughts I had of buying a new Leica M11 have evaporated. My current M10 does what I need, and in some ways, my old M3 is even better.

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But only because the threads in which you have participated have primarily been about HDR photography :wink:

Had you been primarily writing about portraiture and art photography, then the nature of the lens, the number of diaphragm blades and their shape would have been more relevant. In the article you linked to, he talks about Leitz lenses with a 10 blade diaphragm, but he doesn’t say whether the blades were straight or curved. Even if they were straight, 10 blades should give a relatively circular bokeh, curved would be sublime. But then my Nikon 85mm f/1.4 has 9 curved blades, which makes it virtually circular.

So, it is no longer just a matter of which camera, but which camera supports the best lens for the job in hand? I believe that Leica gained a reputation for its image quality, not because of the box that holds the film/sensor, but because of its lens optics and diaphragm shape.

… which shows a lag of only 50ms if pre-focused using the optical finder.

Then there’s this comparison of a few cameras including both Leica rangefinder and Nikon DSLR Camera shutter lag time. – Prosophos All in all, with most modern, quality, DSLRs it hasn’t been an issue for some time now.

What is more interesting is that using the LiveView on many cameras makes for a lot longer lag. So, I was right to stick to my trusty D850 DSLR :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Actually, the D850, in LiveView, has a totally silent shutter mode, which can be a bit disturbing in that it is difficult to know whether the shutter has fired without glimpsing the little green writing light flashing.

Certainly Leica cameras are good - and used to be regarded as the best 35mm film cameras for the job that most people used them for, where subtlety and size is important. The truth is, nowadays, for every “advantage” they used to have, there are several equally competent competitors and the Leica name is something that people have a nostalgic belief that they are still “the best”. I will repeat here that, for the same type of rangefinder film photography, I would rather take out my Mamiya 7 II any day of the week because of the larger film size and equally stunning optics.

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Completely true - but to me, one of the charms of PhotoLab was how it enables “us” (I used to write “you”) to create excellent HDR images. Between the software and the help in this forum, I learned SO much more, and created images that in the past I couldn’t do well (although back then, I didn’t realize that - I do now!). One of my D750 cameras is now semi-permanently mounted on my tripod, near the door to my balcony, waiting to see if Miami will ever have a clear sunset again. Unfortunately, the air is too… un-clear. I think, especially overseas, other cameras are less conspicuous than my D750, and less likely to attract attention. I don’t think I’m a good enough photographer yet to be overly concerned with “the perfect moment”.

This would have been a welcome improvement, but the Fuji also did something none of my other cameras can do - for a split second, after taking an image, I get to see that image in my viewfinder, which then quickly switches back to being a regular viewfinder. I found that invaluable - if the Fuji X100 cameras had been full frame, with interchangeable lenses, that might well have become my main camera now. They do make a interchangeable lens model, which I went to B&H a decade ago to buy, but fell in love with the X100 instead.

The single biggest difference between Leica and “the rest” is something only Leica has - a mechanical rangefinder. For photographers who demand that type of focusing, there is no other choice.

Me? I have this choice every day I walk out my door - D750, M10, or X100f.

…and I also have my film cameras, which once again are sadly getting dusty.

Now that Leica has changed their metering system from what they’ve used for decades, to metering with the sensor, it means that ALL the new Leica cameras are effectively starting in “Live View” until the shutter closes, the metering is switched off, and the shutter activates to capture the photo. It creates a “thunk” sound that many people don’t like. It’s one more reason why I’m unlikely to update my Leica to a newer model.

I’ve been mostly concerned with lens sharpness, and never even considered how many blades there were, and whether they were curved. I’m not good enough for any of this to make a difference in my photography. Some people like the old Leica lenses because they are “artsy”, which to me means the new lenses are sharper - but at $4,000 a pop, that question is irrelevant. One of my limits on a lens is that the price stays below $1,000 and I’m perfectly happy to buy used lenses. About that article, I think lenses at the time were nothing like what lenses today can do, thanks to computer design and new techniques. I’m much more impressed with what David Douglas Duncan did to get the best performance out of the Leica body - the “Leicavit” film winder at the bottom, the added on knob for rewinding, and the post sticking out of the lens for focusing. I’m anxious to read more about him, maybe later this week.

Sorry, I’m sitting here at my computer reading and posting, and doing everything EXCEPT going outside with my camera. It’s actually getting warmer today, and the air is certainly clearing, so maybe I can do something about that today!

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Very basic question. Apparently different cameras allow the shooter to select or use different “color profiles”, which may include things like “standard”, “vivid”, or something from Adobe. Is this correct?

When I open up an image in PL5, if indeed it is going to use some kind of profile, will that be something embedded in the image, or something the camera manufacture specified, or some kind of Adobe “standard”? Or, does DxO create their own profile, based on information from the specific camera?

Finally, if I shoot an identical scene with multiple cameras, will PL5 make them all look “the same”, or will the colors be based on somebody else’s thoughts on how to do this?

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Nikon cameras allow the use of “Picture Controls” like you describe. These are only applied to the JPEG embedded in a RAW file and are completely ignored by PL5. The internal JPEG is also what is used on the screen on the back of the camera and is what gives a very limited impression of what the RAW file contains.

My advice is to set the default Picture Setting to “Flat” on the camera, which will give you the most neutral rendering of what the RAW might look like.

Helen sets hers to B&W because she likes to see an approximation of what an image might look like when she converts it in PL5.

PL uses the default preset that you have assigned in the Preferences. If, as part of that preset, you have added a particular Colour Rendering.

One of the choices for Colour Rendering is to use DCP files, which can be created by shooting a Gretag Macbeth target and using a calibration app like ColorChecker to create a DCP file that matches the lighting the test was created with.

To avoid all this messing around, you can download the adobe DNG Converter app and it will install a whole bunch of DCP files for all sorts of cameras, that match the Picture Controls available for that camera. You can then select one of these DCP files as your Colour Rendering and you will get an approximation of what Nikon created for the JPEG in camera.

But, since there is no easy way to tell which Picture Control was used, apart from digging into the RAW file with ExifTool, it really isn’t worth the effort.

The best use for either the list of camera renderings or the DCP files is when you want shots from different cameras to have the same look and feel as one particular camera. But, of course, you are then going to have to find which of the hundreds of available renderings you like the best.

Or you can just ignore any notion of what a camera manufacturer proposes and go for one of the FilmPack renderings. For example, for B&W, my preferred is Fuji Acros 100. Selecting anything under the Colour Rendering drop-down will apply that look and feel, whatever the original camera settings.

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I remember doing that, but it’s been so long, I’ve forgotten the details. Everything was set as you suggest, so the Nikon just captures a “flat” raw image with no enhancement. My Leicas capture DNG images, and I don’t think there are any color controls. With both cameras (I haven’t tried any of this yet on my Fuji) I ought to be capturing a neutral image with no camera added enhancement or adjustment.

Interesting idea - set the camera to B&W as Helen does. I’ll have to think about this some more, and try it.

Right now, in PL5, I have been using “1 - DxO Standard”. Which Preset do you use, and why? DxO “knows” about most of my cameras, and most of the lenses that might be used on my Nikon D750 or Df. DxO doesn’t “know” about most of the lenses I might use on my M10, but none of those lenses are “coded”, so there is nothing in the EXIF data as to what lens I used.

I do have the “DNG Converter app” installed, but I rarely use it.

From the photos I’ve been posting, do the settings I have been using seem appropriate? When I open my raw images in PL5, they usually look right to me, but they often are too “flat”.

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Fuji have all sorts of “profiles” to emulate their films. If possible, choose something like neutral or, for the most neutral film, whose Fuji Astia 100. In any case, any profile chosen only affects the JPEG preview image, so the RAW file should be neutral anyway.

No, no, no. I thought we’d already suggested the “no corrections” or, better still, the “optical corrections only” preset. For the Leica, this will simply mean that the automatic lens corrections will default to manual but for all others, they will be used.

If PL5 can read all your RAW files, there is no need. The only advantage of installing it was to give you access to a few hundred DCP camera profiles if you ever thought your wanted to use them - I would only do that if I wanted images from different cameras to appear like they were all taken with the same camera.

Flat is good. Then you don’t get a false impression of what the RAW contains and how much it can be adjusted. Using any other preset is just another automatism that can make it harder to balance out the image

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I now shoot ‘raw’ exclusively on every digital camera I use. Now that I can use the Fuji files with PL5, I enjoy doing this much more than before - but the Fuji mostly just sits in my drawer. Two cameras is enough for me - the M8.2 and the Fuji X100f only get used once a month, to keep them happy, and so I don’t totally forget how to use them.

Yes, for the past year or two, that’s what I’ve been using, but a few weeks ago I got curious and tried the “standard”. I liked the results, but maybe it’s just like an addictive drug, and it’s bad for me. As a test, it worked out fine, but I’ll go back to what all of you encouraged/insisted I do.

Actually, I very much would NOT like to do that. I’d like to see the raw images just the way my camera saved them, and there’s no need for them all to look “the same”, and if that was the case, “the same as ???”. I’m not sure if “the Leica look” or “the Nikon look” or “the XXX look” makes any useable difference. I have learned to think that over-processing is a big mistake, and I shouldn’t do any more processing than necessary. If I had your skills, I might think otherwise, but I don’t.

I do have my own thoughts about this, but since you are far beyond my capabilities, I will go along with your reasoning. I think each camera has its own “look”, and that’s just a starting point

One question though - when does PL5 apply a preset? Is it when I first view all the images in “Photo Library”, or when I open an image in “Customize”? If I open an image in whatever Preset PL5 used, and immediately click on the “Optical Corrections Only”, will this be the best starting point for me, or should I make that choice before I click on “Customize”?

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IF the image has never seen before by DPL, DPL applies the default preset that is defined in DPL’s settings, no matter if DPL first sees an image in library or customize view…

If an image has been customised, DPL applies all the changes that have been made before the image is viewed again - or a cached preview is loaded.

Usually, an image is first seen in library view, which is needed to navigate DPL to the folder with the latest image files.

If you “park” DPL on a folder and switch to customize view, the default preset will be applied when a new image is added to the folder that DPL has been parked on.

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I was trying to figure out specifically where this is. Once I open PL5, how do I define this default preset? I assume from then on, this preset will be used, when it is first opened.

Curious, since PL5 “knows” that I am shooting these images with an M10 (or whatever) is there any way to find out specifically what PL5 is going to do?

Also, if I make up a list of all my Leica lenses, is there a way for me to find out if PL5 “knows” those lenses? If not, will PL5 not use any preset for optical corrections?

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Here is what the user guide has to say on page 234:

You can access the Preferences via the DxO PhotoLab drop-down menu. The Preferences window is divided into five tabs:.
General tab
• Updates: DxO PhotoLab automatically checks for updates upon launch.
• Dialogs: Automatically show the DxO Optics Module download window displays the DxO Optics Module download window if an image is discovered for which a DxO Optics Module is available, but has not yet been installed on your computer.
• Default presets:
o Default preset for new RAW images: Lets you select a default preset that will be applied to all RAW images when you browse through your folders, and which will be initially applied to them in the Image Browser. The application default preset is DxO Standard.
o Default preset for new RGB images: Lets you select a default preset which be applied to all RGB (JPEG, TIFF, DNG) images when you browse through your folders, and which will be initially applied to them in the Image Browser. The application default preset is DxO Standard.

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Something might be broken, or I’m just more confused than usual.
I selected the “5 - No Correction” preset, and opened an image, nothing else done. Here’s what I see in the “history” list:
Screen Shot 2022-01-27 at 19.33.29

When the image first was opened, and it says “Applied Default Preset”, why doesn’t it tell us what that Default Preset is/was?

Assuming it got over-written by my “no corrections preset”, nothing should have been done. Right?

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This is how DxO programmed it. Every change that folliws will be logged in Advanced History. The default preset is only applied the very first time, DPL sees an image and AH does not give any details :man_shrugging:

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Aha! So, when I open an image for the first time, some mysterious preset is applied to it, but none of us know what that preset is, or does. Then, the preset that we have selected gets applied over that first preset, so now we’ve got a combination of presets, and we’re off to the races.

I’m confused, but I guess it doesn’t matter. It is what it is. I edited three more images earlier this evening, and everything went fine, or at least I thought so - I usually think that before posting something here, only to learn how much more work is needed.

I will try to create one new image tomorrow, and post it, incorporating any new things I’ve learned. When I just capture images I enjoy, and then have fun editing them, and get results that I’m happy with, I end up in a very good mood. Part of all this is “learning”, which will never stop, and another part is “photographing”, which I enjoy regardless of what camera gear I have with me. In this case, I knew what I wanted, and I made it happen.

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