Viewing two separate images

Erol, there’s a lot of infrastructure which needs to be put into place to allow viewing multiple images simultaneously. If it’s just a viewer separate from any image controls (you only get the latest version of each), of course it’s possible.

But if DxO gives us that image comparison tool, users will start to shout for the ability to apply changes to an image when in comparison. And if DxO adds that option, the cries will ring out for changes to all of the images in comparison. I’m a bit worried this viewer will become a real distraction and will never please people. Image comparison is more the province of a triage and rating tool than a RAW developer. Since DxO has suggested they want to improve DAM features, you may get your wish.

If so, I hope this comparison tool doesn’t slow down Photo Lab, the way Adobe Lightroom slowed down between versions 2 and 6, as Adobe added more and more features and more and more development teams to Lightroom. Speed is the one essential feature for me in a RAW developer for many photographers.

Software development is not so easy.

For me it would be enough to compare 2 images in their developed state, only in the Organize tab, side by side. This is only to select one of many that I “feel” is the best, and not the one that is scientificly the best, because its histograms are better distributed.

If the tool can present a grid to the user, it also can present a grid with one row and two columns that contain large previews. With a little bit of zooming and simultanous scrolling, it is sufficient for the most basic users, to make a decission on which image to keep, and which to delete.

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You could say the same thing about every other feature. User feature requests should be considered on their own merits, without resorting to the slippery slope argument (I also work in software development, btw).

I don’t think improving caching of developed images, so that switching back-and-forth between two recently developed images didn’t require a redraw period of several seconds, would require so much work. No UI changes needed, just add more caching under the hood.

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Cool. Rwerp, what would you do in answer to these issues:

  1. Are these image modifiable when being compared?
  2. Can the user switch out to either image or does the user have to return to the original one from which s/he started to compare and switch there?

“Developed state” in “exported Jpeg or Tiff” by DPL? So you like to use DPL for examining your output?
Normal in the tree of the [Organize tab] i select the rawfiles only.
I use something like Faststone Image Viewer for comparing. You can up to 4 images compare at ones and zoom in move around as one or image by image. It shows also RW2’s, But i am pretty sure it shows the embedded thumbnail Jpeg not a impression of the rawfile it self. Aldoh they state raw support so i am not sure because zoom in at 400% in a thumbnail size? (a incamera black and white is showed black and white so no raw because that’s always “color”.)

So the only real extra i think a raw developer would be giving is real raw workspace-preview side by side.

Back to DPL Organisor and customize image browser.
With CTRL + U you can undock the strip and do a full screen with zoom function left upper corner for the thumbnails:


Again CTRL + U docks it back to original state.
So maybe it easy (quick fix in update terms) to enlarge the zoomingfactor to 2 or 4 images on fullscreen So you can cull more easily on thumbnail comparison?
just plain comparison not a extra zoom 1:1 comparison like FSIV does.
That requires a different tool: Selection of 2 til 4 images in the image browser and a comparisonbutton which allows you to zoom in til 1:1 or further.

I am, personally, not sure if i “need” this feature(same as FSIV) in DPL as priority update.
What i would like to have first is a realtime developer history in steps.
So i can go several steps back and forward to see if my work is progressing the right way or not and if not just go back X steps in that list and start over.

now we have one step (or repeatable) < or > and a switch on / switch off of the whole tool to compare your work in progress.
The work around now is use virtual copy and practise on that one.So your original isn’t ruined by messing around and you didn’t count your editingsteps to undo.You can’t combine them if the outcome is good other then copy paste all corrections on original and delete virtual copy after that. So a history list would be easier to use.

But i guess in the DAM function the comparison side by side function will add a functionality which bring it to the next level. (i don’t upgrade to v2.0 yet so i don’t know how well its improved Organisor tab is working now.)

When a raw is displayed in the organize tab it is basically a preview which is rendered with the default settings. These settings can be changed in the customize tab, so that new previews are generated. Like thumbnails but in original size or at least screen size. I just want to compare two previews, to see which one I like more, and to delete the other. Basically like in Lightroom.

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Ah ok, So the organisor can be having two comparison (new) screens: the strip window in somewhat more bigger thumbnails then i can now blowup for quick culling and the preview screen in the Organisor it provides now, but then with two images if selected.

quick compare test shows same kind of 1:1 grab and move but only for no corrections and corrected (latest state) so the basissoftware for a two different image comparison is present. Only now a base preview and one with the dopfile info applied.

And as i understand you correct, just the latest state version (correction preview) freely selective in the strip for two images.
If they can implement this easy i think it will be a step forward.
Until its implemented i just open FSIV wile DPL is running and use that to examin and delete, re-enter folder to refresh in DPL’s organisor. (minor drawback the dop-files arn’t deleted with the delete inside FSIV, so a clean up is needed afterwards.)

But i get your wish. And in a DAM it’s not very preferable to delete/alter outside its window in a other app or explorer of window10, because it can corrupt its database.
if you like i will drop a vote (it has allready 12)

This is a screen shot from ON 1Photo RAW 2019. Thisw is what I was looking for in DxO Photo Lab 2. However if it going to slow dowm the software I would rather have the speed and use some other software for comparison.

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Yes, something like Erol posted. Or something like that:

  1. Assume this is your photo library with 3 images, you want to keep only one from, the best:

  1. So you start with the first photo and tell PL to keep it on screen. The preview area is now split into two:

  1. The user can now select photo 2 or 3, which is then displayed in the free area to the right, while the kept image remains always on the left side of the preview area, as best pick:

  1. If the user now decides that 2 is better than 1, he can make it the new photo to keep on the left side.

Otherwise he selects photo 3 in the film strip and can compare 1 to 3 in the preview area.

This way the user sees always the photo, that he thinks is the best so far and can compare it to the remaining photos, which he has not seen.

Erols image is a good example, which views are expected from modern raw developers. Here is an excerpt from his image:

ok i am convinced and just voted :slightly_smiling_face:
If they can build this feature in quick (like Erols example in view choises) and it don’t slows down (much) the developing path of tool-improvements in DPL bring it on!
:grinning:

You misunderstood me. I didn’t even ask for displaying 2 images side by side. All I was asking for is better caching of development results of the last 2 images (call them A and B), so that when I switch between A and B (e.g. A->B->A->B etc.), PhotoLab doesn’t spend a few seconds each time redrawing them. That’s all.

In ON1 Photo RAW

  1. The images being compared is in the “browser mode” and are not modifiable.
  2. You can switch out to either image.

I hope this answers the question that “uncoy” had.

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Is ability to display & compare only two images at the same time sufficient ?

How about the common approach of bracketing one’s shots - in which case, you’d need to be able to evaluate 3 (or 5, or 7?) shots.

Whenever PL displays an image, it must first process all the corrections, adjustments, filters, etc that we have applied to it - and that takes a significant amount of time to do (which is exactly why some adjustments, such as Prime NR, are NOT included when rendering the on-screen display of an image).

By “a significant amount of time”, I mean enough time that one’s visual memory (or mine, at least !) has forgotten the nuances of the previously displayed image.

All of which means that I simply don’t expect PL to provide me with ability to compare multiple images - - I find it MUCH easier to compare images with FastRawViewer or Irfan … because both of these tools are able to display images so quickly (effectively immediately) that I can simply toggle back-and-forwards thru images to achieve an instant comparison (between JPGs from PL or the original RAW files).

John M

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Every normal RAW conversion tool, that allows fast navigation in its library, has a so called preview cache. On import/indexing and after someone changes the development settings of a RAW, a JPEG is generated in the background and is placed inside this preview cache. When the user navigates inside his library, only the JPEG is loaded from the cache and is displayed to the user. The RAW engine sleeps. It takes milliseconds to load and display these preview JPEGs.

Toggling between images to find the differences makes me nervous, because my eyes loose the orientation all the time, especially if the tool does not preserve the zoom factor and scroll position, while toggling. Or try to compare images which are on position 1 and 100 with toggling.

That’s not the case with FastRawViewer … it’s a true RAW-file viewer (but, it doesn’t have the overhead that PL has to deal with - - in having to first apply all of our corrections, adjustments, filters, etc).

Yes - that’s why I use Irfan for this purpose - it allows scrolling and zoom to be locked.

Both those tools I’ve mentioned are vastly superior to PL for comparing multiple images (IMHO).

Regards, John M

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Nothing is ever “enough”. I’m not sure where such a line of argument is supposed to lead us. You could use it to shoot down every feature request ever asked. “Yeah, now you want X, but it’s not enough and you’ll want Y and Z later. Therefore, no X for you”. It doesn’t make sense to me.

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You are right “nothing is ever enough”. That is why sometimes you have to use two or three different programs. Even with Adobe (which I despise) Lightroom is generally used with Photoshop to provide a final image. DxO Phoro Lab does a lot.
Here is another screen shot of ON1 Photo RAW 2019. You can compare as many images as you want before or after processing them. The images on the screen shot were same image taken with four different lenses to check out sharpness. you can zoom in all images at the same time for comparison.

HI everyone and thanks for your feedback and suggestions.

Point has been taken and we have it in our backlog now.
I’m closing this topic to free votes and make room for other ideas and features need! :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Fabrizio

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