The pure magic of PhotoLab 5

DxO PhotoLab
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I’m happy to be wrong for once. I worried this would be time wasted and even destructive. Instead the metadata features in PhotoLab 5 do work and I will find them useful. If they had come a year earlier, I probably would not have invested in PhotoMechanic. The Plus part of PhotoMechanic still offers a catalogue like no other (one can search instantly on any dates, any camera, any lens, any file size, any keyword and all at once, across hundreds of thousands of image files).

What’s wonderful here is that DxO did not push us into a database only model or that wretched sessions model that C1 pushes on us. Just the frustration with bringing a folder of images into C1 and out has stopped me from putting the time in on C1. After losing Aperture to Apple’s whims, iView Media to Microsoft’s incompetence and PhaseOne’s neglect and Lightroom to Adobe’s greed, I’m not at all interested in having another company try to take over my image library. It’s well-structured OS level files and folders from here on in.

I’m okay with where we are in terms of a fast image editor which does not attempt to fully replace the bitmap editor. It’s more than possible to take an almost finished image into Affinity Photo for subtle dodge and burn and layer work. The work has to be pretty subtle now to require more than the chroma and luminance selectors we now have.

Some people say PhotoLab 5 is only a small incremental improvement. No, it’s an amazing new version. Having control over every U-point mask with both chroma and luma sliders changes what we can do. Control lines make gradient work so much better. And we’re just getting started learning how to use them.

And I’m delighted to be able to add metadata as I go and not as a separate process.

Note: I am not at all okay with DxO pushing us out of recent OS versions because they are just too lazy to support more than two versions of the OS (it means building on more than one Mac). Switching OS now has cost me north of fifty hours which otherwise could have been spent on billable or creative work. Putting those hours in now does nothing to save me from having to do it again later. I was much happier only putting those hours in every three years not every year.

Cue Joanna to come in with a bunch of technogabble how only the most recent shared software libraries can do anything. Is it an attempt to present herself as an insider while reciting the most pedestrian Apple press release nonsense. Can’t figure out her motivation here, surely she can’t receive a commission for every Mac sold in Europe? Ah yes, it’s a justification for the fact that her keyword program (now more or less made obsolete by the metadata features in PhotoLab 5) can’t run on anything earlier than Big Sur.

And no, performance of PhotoLab 4 and PhotoLab 5 for a Radeon equipped Intel Mac under Big Sur is absolutely the same. Just the same as PhotoLab 4 under Mojave. There was no optimisation done for these computers and no need to exclude Mojave except laziness to compile PhotoLab 5 on a Catalina Xcode instead of Big Sur Xcode. It’s a kick in the stomach to loyal DxO customers and PhotoLab advocates.

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I agree! I also tink Photolab and Photo Library will be fine for most people already now in version 5 and I think it´s resonably efficient as a metadata editor too. I definitely prefer it before my old retired Lightroom 6.X. I understand you might find it simpler and easier to administrate than Photo Machanic because PM Plus definitely demands a lot more to really shine integrated with Photolab. It has to be configured.

I also have found I have completely abandoned Capture One 20 as an editor. Just use it for repro and tethering these days and only in session mode without the monolithic database.

I still find positive integration surprises in Photolab. Today I found a function called “External Selections” and it turned out that it stores all the imported image selections I have done in PM Plus in Photolab PhotoLibrary!!! So if I select say 10 images in PM Plus, right click and select “Edit selected photos with” (Photolab) and these images gets imported and opened in Photolab that action get stored under the label “External Selections” with the time as it was performed. In fact it´s like getting these images stored in sort of a Collection.

I think your history is intresting where you name a row of other metadata tools that you have abandoned litterally or in your mind and that stresses just how important it is not to get locked in in some proprietary monolithic metadata database that might even get corrupted. We can´t rely on solutions like that. If a metadata database is run under the default in Lightroom (where metadata only is stored in the database) and you don´t have a restorable backup you will probably loose all your work due to a single point of failure.

It´s a big difference between for example an Enterprise DAM or the databases in Photo Mechanic. In this case the metadata master is not the metadata database but the XMP-sidecars if you have RAW-files or the image files themself if the files are in any of the XMP-compatible formats like JPEG, TIF and DNG. In that case there is no need to worry at all. It´s just to select the top folde of your image folder tree and reinex.

I agree about it´s really an amazingly useful PhotoLibrary module we got in version 5 but I´m also convinced it has taken a lot of efforts to come this far since version 4 was a joke in these respects. The focus on PhotoLibrary has taken it´s toll when it comes to other needed changes that didn´t happen now but had to wait.

Metadata tools will come and go but the metadata will remain and we have to use metadata tools that gives us reliable conditions to migrate or scale up and down after our changing demands and needs. Today they have to support the XMP-standard (and IPTC, EXIF and preferably Dublin Core regardless it it´s embedded in XMP namespaces or not).

… and it´s not just Apple that treats it´s customers badly. Even Microsoft! Windows 11 will not work on any of Intels miljons of i3, i5 and i7 computers except maybe the last generation of i7 despite you have a computer that meets all other system requirements when it comes to RAM, numbers of kernels and performance. The reason is that these systems are said “not to be stable” enough with Win 11! Isn´t that something Microsoft should fix as a responsible manufacturer?

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No. There are certainly other DAM programs that can do this, including the one I use, IMatch. They all have various pros and cons (and prices) of course.

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If you are going to make libellous and defamatory remarks, please get your facts straight.

My comments on version support are certainly nothing to do with supporting Apple. I assure you, Microsoft are equally guilty of issuing updates so fast it is difficult to compile code in time before the next one escapes.

The context of my remarks is purely from a developer/consultant’s point of view, having to manage the evolution of a software project with an ever shifting OS.

And how dare you belittle the over two years of hard work that I have put into my app! It was never intended to be a competitor to PhotoLab but more a lightweight but reliable and compatible keywording and image search app for those who don’t want to have to play with the big boys toys. But, like DxO, I had to draw the line with backwards compatibility and, considering there is no previous version and no existing users to “cut off”, I had to decide to set the minimum requirement at Catalina (not Big Sur) because the APIs that were needed to avoid it performing like a dog are simply not available in Mojave.

Your remarks are becoming tiresome as well as insulting and not befitting the kind of person you have been in helping so many people in tases groups in the past.

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JCH2103, What really gives PM Plus an edge compared to almost every other mainly single user Image Asset Management System is the ability to have as many simultanously active catalogs/databases one wish and be able to search in as many as you like at once and so elegantly easy. In Lightroom you are stuck with one single database at the time as in most integrated systems.

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That’s really cool. It gives one similar functionality to C1’s sessions it seems, but greatly enhanced.

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Different level. Each one of those PM+ catalogues is the real deal, full database ultra-fast system level catalogues. It’s like the ability to have unlimited Lightroom master catalogues all open at the same time, except they are fast, even instant in showing previews and scrolling through many thousands of photos.

Only downside is the interface was clearly designed by programmers for programmers. But that’s just cosmetic. Cleaning up the interface could be done in a couple of weeks of hard work with a talented UX designer working with the existing programmers. I.e. it’s not a structural flaw and we as users can learn to use it as is.

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I have always liked the concept of a “session” based type of workflow but hated the C1 approach where each session was standalone. I never realised that PM had the solution. That said the software is a bit too pricey - cannot justify that sort of outlay. So I am either stuck with Lr or learn to work with the PL library. Decisions, decisions!

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Abandon Lightroom and work with PhotoLab/PhotoMechanic Plus combined workflow. @Stenis who is much more serious about his metadata and image management than I am chose just that combination and from all reports is very happy about it.

CameraBits paid updates are infrequent so it’s basically a one-time hit. Still seems like a lot though. If you are willing to manage just finished images, an older version of Lightroom can work, managing both jpegs and tiffs with aplomb.

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Food for thought. First things first though. I need to decide what upgrades to get re PL5. Do I go Nik or do I go FP? Always thought PL + Nik was a pretty powerful combination and have never really gotten into FP.

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The metadata management in PhotoLab 5 is good enough that as long as you are willing to avoid hierarchical keywords for now you don’t need PhotoMechanic to create and add metadata (yes the PhotoMechanic tools are more powerful but we’re not running teams of photographers on the sidelines of World Cup games).

PhotoMechanic is more interesting for its ability to properly catalogue.

Not sure what FP is. Outside of BW (which really is better in SilverEfex than anything else I’ve tried), there’s no pressing need for Nik. Panoramas and HDR I would do in Affinity Photo after doing the initial RAW processing and lens correction in PhotoLab.

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FP = Film Pack.

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I use Photo Supreme to manage catalogs and metadata. It’s as powerful as PM, I think.

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There’s little point in using PhotoLab except in Elite version and that includes the FilmPack Elite version as well. As I’ve written a few times in the last few days, access to Fine Contrast which is one of the best tools in PhotoLab is locked away in FilmPack Elite. The HSL tool Channel Mixer is there as well.

If you do any keystoning and perspective correction you’ll need ViewPoint too. I could almost get away without ViewPoint as Horizon and Crop are what I use 98% of the time. The few times I keystone I could do it after RAW processing in Affinity Photo. I’m happy to have those tools available directly in PhotoLab though.

Savings are if one can drop Lightroom/Photoshop and/or CaptureOne plus PhotoLab plus Affinity Photo plus Nik for just PhotoLab + Affinity Photo. The workflow is much more straightforward. Learn to use the tools we own. They are all much deeper than we give them credit for.

The same applies to a photographer who can get by with CaptureOne + Affinity Photo. Personally I get along much more naturally with PhotoLab’s control point system than CaptureOne’s layers model. Either works if one learns the respective app deeply. Strengths: CaptureOne does much better with advanced colour correction while PhotoLab does much better with noise reduction and high ISO photography (and now metadata).

I had the plan of moving most post-processing over to C1 so I could keep using Mojave but having tested the chroma and luma sliders in control points and control sliders in PhotoLab 5 and – big surprise – found the metadata tools in PhotoLab 5 entirely serviceable for my use (personal photos and regional sports), I will probably carry on with a PhotoLab only workflow (well SilverEfex in Nik 3 for BW) with Affinity Photo for HDR/Perspective/Panorama/massive bitmap correction.

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Just a couple of quick points. First, I think you may have intended to say that the Channel Mixer is in FP 6, not the HSL tool which is part of PhotoLab. Second, besides the perspective feature, Viewpoint 3 also has the Volume Deformation tool. I have used it often to correct group portraits and other images when people or objects towards the edges of the frame are distorted and appear much wider than they should.

Mark

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Correction made.

besides the perspective feature, Viewpoint 3 also has the Volume Deformation tool. I have used it often to correct group portraits and other images when people or objects towards the edges of the frame are distorted and appear much wider than they should.

Thanks for the tip! I don’t take enough advantage of Volume Deformation. The particular set of Nikon lenses I use these days have so little distortion I don’t find myself facing these issues as I used to in my Canon 10-22mm ultra-wide or Sony 16-50mm years. Glad to know to have another tool in the box though.

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I have FP5. So it is whether the upgrade to V6 is worthwhile.

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Probably not required. I happen to like the new Fuji-inspired profiles. There’s some better tools for colour swapping. If you are not doing advanced colour manipulation (changing the colours of objects entirely), then you don’t need improved tools for doing so. There’s some improvements to the standalone app but those are mostly irrelevant to me as I always use FilmPack via the PhotoLab interface. I was happy with FilmPack 5 though and could survive without this upgrade.

FilmPack does support Mojave so I upgraded mostly on principle – supporting DxO for doing the right thing.

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Actually went with FP6 in the end. As you say, those Fuji inspired profiles are nice. Thanks for that.

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The upside chosing Photolab together with Filmpack and ViewPoint us that these plug-ins really integrate seamlessly with Photolab and uses RAW as the common base and not need a sloppy TIF as a internediat file format. Also quite a few parts in NIK doesn’t add anything since the same functions already are moved to Photolab like templates, sharpening, denoise and controlpoints. I got NIK-COLLECTION a few years ago just to test the integration and got pretty disappointed. Now I’m rarely use anything else than Silver Efex Pro. I think NIK mainly is a tool for Adobe users.

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