the RAW images (cr2) look different than the JPG images. The colors are different - even if I use the preset ‘no correction’ (for jpg and cr2).
My monitor is calibrated (with x-rite display pro).
The issue is that the jpg colors are almost always nicer (>95%) than the DxO rendered colors of the RAW file!
Even if I change the color settings to ‘Camera’ and Canon 6d (beside others) the issue remains. To be precise: the colors are now again different but not like the jpg images.
Do others have the same issue?
It would be wonderfull if anybody can help me.
So that we can offer some suggestions, can you please be a bit more specific: Which version of the files look different to you ?
- Are you comparing a JPG produced by your camera with a (processed) RAW file captured at the same time?
- Or, are you comparing the PL3 display of a (processed) RAW file with the exported JPG
- Or … what ?
I‘m comparing the JPG produced by my Camera (Canon 6d) with the CR2 file.
Thanks and greetings
The JPG out of camera is also influenced by the picture style. DxO PL does not try to reproduce this. This may be another reason for differences.
If you need the RAW development exactly as out of camera JPGs you have to use Canon’s Digital Photo Professional software.
Or you think about what especially you like about the JPGs and create a preset with DxO that matches your preferences.
Third option: You use the JPG if you are happy with the results.
Yes, if that’s what you’re comparing then there are many factors that have potential to impact the result of your processed RAW.
Another relevant question to ask is which colour-space you are using (in your camera, versus the ICC Profile being applied to your exported JPG) ? … If, for example, the out-of-camera JPG is using the Adobe colour space but you are exporting from PL3 using the sRGB ICC Profile then that will impact your colours too.
…you can emulate Canon’s “recipes” by using one of the following possibilities:
- Use Canon DPP and select the picture style (that gives you the results you like)
-> possibly the easiest way to get exact Canon colours.
- Use Adobe Lightroom and select the camera profile (…)
-> Emulates Canon’s colours through profiles that are provided by Adobe.
- Use DxO PhotoLab and apply a camera profile from Lightroom
-> Emulation, only works if you have Lightroom too.
Canon’s picture styles produce pleasing pictures. Supposing that Canon does not provide their recipes to other contenders, all these can do is try to get close. Adobe provides profiles that emulate the different picture styles, DxO provides its own recipes and a possibility to use external .icc or .dcp profiles, but no camera model specific variants.
Your problem is that jpeg images have already been processed by the software in the camera, according to the “Picture Control” (or equivalent) settings in the camera. What is more, the jpeg is compressed into an 8-bit format, whereas the RAW is usually 12 - 14-bits uncompressed, giving you more room to adjust exposure, contrast, etc, just as if you had made this changes in camera.
The RAW file is not processed at all until you change it in DxO, apart from if you have applied a default preset, which could change its appearance. All you have to do is learn how to use DxO to adjust the image to how you want it to be. Think jpeg = ready made cake vs RAW = ingredients ready for mixing
I’m aware of the differences. Since I was using Lightroom I was used to that the starting point of the raw processing looked very, very similar as the jpg image.
This is not the case with DxO!
Example: I took a picture of a landscape because the colours of the clouds looked very nice. The jpg image had the nice colours (which I saw in reality) but the fields in front where too dark. Hence, I wanted to make the fields a little less dark. Which is no issue with a raw file, of cause. But DxO did not show the nice colours in the clouds. And I couldn’t reproduce them.
Perhaps it is because of my still limited DxO know how. Maybe. But I invested quite some time (hours) and raw processing in general is not new to me.
However, I understood, that DxO doesn’t have a profile for Canon which delivers a very similar looking raw image as a starting point for my image processing.
John-M, thanks for your information/questions. I’m shooting raw+jpg in my Canon 6D with AWB (auto white balance) and either the standard or the neutral picture profile.
I’m using sRGB in my complete workflow.
platypus, it seams that you hit the bulls eye. It’s seams that DxO simply doesn’t have a similar camera profile like Lightroom does (which preserves the Canon colours).
Thanks for your hints/solutions. I moved from Lightroom to DxO due to Adobe’s subscription. Hence, solution 2 is out
I will do some investigations with .icc or .dcp profiles and I will check some other RAW converters.
- with Canon DPP the colours (raw and jpg) are the same as expected.
- with Luminar 4 the colours (raw and jpg) are different - similar to DxO.
Thanks and happy Christmas holidays!
Of course, Canon’s software takes the picture settings from the camera into account, which are essentially what gives the jpeg its look and shows the jpeg from within the RAW with those settings until you edit anything.
Other software doesn’t necessarily do that. DxO doesn’t show the internal jpeg from the RAW, thus the difference.
There is nothing wrong with DxO; it is working as expected.
I only do minimal raw processing and my knowledge of the software and techniques are limited. Recently I upgraded from ver 2 to 3. I also changed my camera from Panasonic M43 to Sony RX100 (Christmas gift to myself)
I also encountered similar issue to what is expressed here. My Sony OOC jpegs are nicer than the processed image from PL3. Previously I had no issues when processing Panasonic m43 raw images.
Like I said, the jpeg files produced by your camera are already processed in the camera, according to the settings in the menus on the back. the RAW files are totally un-processed and their appearance depends on what you do with them in DxO.
Here’s an untreated RAW file from my Nikon D810…
If I were using B&W negative film, I would get something like this before printing…
But, printing such a negative would give me…
In the same way, treating the RAW file in DxO, gives me…
… as opposed to the jpeg file from the camera…
… which before treatment, doesn’t look anything like I intended.
Even if you treat a jpeg in DxO, you are working with an already treated and compressed image, which is missing lots of information that would be available from the RAW file.
The RAW file contains a jpeg preview image, which is what you see on the back of the camera and which is affected by the settings in your camera menus. The RAW file is not affected by the settings in the menus and must be treated to realise an image that you are happy with, hence the difference in appearance.
You can have access to Adobe DCP camera profiles if you install their DNG Converter. If you have PhotoLab 2 or 3 you can direct it to any DCP profile placed somewhere on your system.
I don’t want to be blunt but why did you buy dxoplv3?
Processing jpegs? The power is developing raw files.
What you can try is use a few examples in ooc-jpeg and rawfiles( turn of the exposure idyn’s and other oocjpeg exposure enhancer features in you camera because they don’t be applied on your rawfile.), put some elbow grease in the proces, and try to recreate the saturation and vibrance in the raw file. Copy past this on the other samples and see if there a common improvement.
If so you have your first personal preset made!
I also don’t want to be blunt but don’t have to take BS from you. May be read my post before answering.
SOOC jpegs almost always look better than unprocessed raw files regardless of the camera used.
A camera’s jpegs include in-camera adjustments which are effectively built in post processing. Those adjustments, which are usually modifiable to varying degrees by the user, affect such things as sharpness, color tone, contrast and picture style, and these days perhaps additional adjustments
These are added in camera to jpegs because unprocessed raw files tend to look flat and dull by comparison.
The fact that you’re out of camera jpegs from your Sony seem to be nicer then your processed raw files from the same camera says to me that you are not currently familiar enough with PhotoLabs tools and features to use it effectively. Since you indicate lack of experience both with editing raw files and using PhotoLab, I suggest that is the crux of the issues you are having. There is hardly a straight out of camera jpeg taken by any photographer and from any camera that cannot be improved upon to varying degrees with judicious use of the tools in Photolab.
Compared to many of the post processing programs Photolab is relatively easy to use, but understanding all of the tools, when and how to use them, and the relative impact on each other when using multiple tools can take quite a while to master.
Non taken(maybe i was a bit short handed) , and i did read your post:
So no BS when i ask if you mainly proces ooc-Jpegs in DxOPl. And the then combined asking why using a pure RAWdeveloper application with great optical correction modules.
And if you process your Panasonic m43 again? (assuming you processed them in PLv2) different outcome?
(most rawdeveloper who are in the brandbox like by Panasonic it’s Silkypix has camera style build in to replicate the camera’s ooc-jpeg So you can have a one click “replica” out your rawdeveloper so i assume that Sony has such a application also who is tuned to Sony’s oocjpeg.)
Some other questions;
And DxO Smartlighting? on which level?
How is your RX100 camerastyle set? vivid? or natural or (i don’t know which styles are possible.)
There are many factors who influence the look of a ooc-jpeg and a rawfile.
Small example: my G80 has in oocjpeg some tweaked settings so i get more saturation “vivid” and idyn for highlight protection, (influences RAW-file by -1/3 -2/3 or -3/3 exposure. and Jpeg also in contrast adjustment.)
I found a oocjpeg and a raw file (i only use ooc-Jpeg’s for quick view on HDTV and scene fun things artistic scene menu) or panorama and delete the ooc-jpegs after development.
first section is Silkypix and there connection with the Panasonic camera (it actual reads the settings of the camera out of the rawfile and apply them in SP on the rawfile if you choose camera stye.) This way i can get a lot of oocjpeg colors back in raw style. Why? because the camera is in the list for support in color rendering and “camera style” is activated in the application to choose.
DxO can’t read camera settings and uses a generic rendering to view the rawfile.
Some “auto modes” influences color, exposure and contrast the good way or the wrong way.
So back to your problem: is there a difference between plv2 and plv3 when you load and no corrections are manual done? are your preset-settings the same?
If the images are the same in v2 and v3 your upgrade to v3 isn’t the cause. (except maybe a dop-filev2 to v3 translation.Some things are changed so v2 isn’t fully compatible with v3 and thus backwards also not compatible.)
So it could be that some of your processed raw files in DxOPlv2 are looking different in PLv3 (when loaded for the first time you can get Virtual Copy’s as reaction on the convertion what’s a sign of not fully 1:1 taken over.)
So that’s why i suggested to make a selection of some images where you have the ooc-jpeg and the rawfile and start to adjust the rawfile in a certain way so this settings are more or less to duplicate on all images of the raw’s and by export are more or less the same as your ooc-jpeg’s.
This creates a startingpoint and then you have a “Sony RX100 preset” which have a “ooc-jpeg look”
This can be done with all your camera’s.
(ps when your “preset for your camera” is made you can convert to the rawfile processing as main and have a constant rendering with excelent lenscorrections as bonus. My Fz200 raw files run through SP7pro or through DxOPL is a clear winner for DxOPL. Detailing and noise reduction sharpness all better in a instant and certainly over the out of camera jpegs.)
Thanks for your detailed reply. When I develop Panny raw files in PL2, never used any other software to pre-process the files. I used same process in PL3 to develop Sony raw files and not happy with the results.
Now I tried to reload the raw files with sidecars I get exclamation mark on the files which means processed but require updating. I couldn’t. make it to show the previous effects in the pane, which surprised me. I have raised it with the customer support but so far haven’t received any workaround other than start a fresh. Does any o you have similar issues with PL3 and if so how did you overcome this.
Peter, until this issue is resolved, I won’t be trying your suggestions.
Have you tried simple things like pushing up the vibrancy and contrast? If you find that most photos need, for example more vibrancy and contrast you can simply create a preset with these settings to give you a starting point for your edit.
In reply to Jens’ original post:
It really depends on the picture style you are using in the camera. I tend to use “standard” on my EOS 80D and 5Dmk4. This is in-camera processing which only affects the jpeg, not the RAW file, and your choice may well be different. However when imported into PL, you can choose to apply a preset. By default this is “DXO Standard” and in my case does indeed look slightly different - a little brighter and more contrasty, and a little warmer in tone. I can easily match this when I choose to, with a fairly subtle combination of sliders. To do this I use:
Colour: Tint +5 (= a little more pink), Temp -70K (= slightly cooler)
I have saved this as a preset called “Canon_like_colour” and can apply it any time, or I can make it the default if I choose to, so that every image loaded into PL is treated that way…you may need different settings of course.
Note that it is important to turn off the application of any preset to the jpeg images, if you want to see what the actual out-of-camera jpeg looks like without any modifications. To do this, use the drop down menu in PL:
EDIT > Preferences > General Tab > Correction Settings > For RGB images > option 4 - no correction
Bear in mind that DXO does not know what camera setting (picture style) you have chosen in your Canon 6D’s menu, and that each picture style can be edited by you, as a result there are hundreds of different possibilities. There are 11 picture styles plus 3 user defined presets, each has 6 parameters that can be changed, with 5 or 7 levels. So over 500 possible settings in the camera!
I have found that Photolab’s initial rendering of RAW files from my Sony RX100mk4 is very similar to the jpeg from the camera, but that is just a coincidence. As I rarely use the jpeg files, because they don’t have PL’s excellent optical aberration corrections, it is not relevant to me that they “look the same”.
Once you understand how to tweak PL to your own preferences you will find it very versatile. Good luck!