Processing "dull", gray-sky images in PhotoLab 5

Thanks. Maybe I’m not using PL5 as I should. Mostly, I go down the menu list of settings, and do them one after another in the order in which they’re listed.

Sometimes I start with the major and obvious changes, and work down to the smaller changes or enhancements. In order:

  • straighten image
  • crop
  • adjust brightness and contrast if needed
  • adjust white balance if needed
  • use the repair tool if needed
  • turn on DeepPRIME
  • only after the above, do I start making what I consider “minor” changes - as in fine tuning
  • consider fine contrast
  • consider saturation and vibrance

at this point I look over the whole image, and maybe use control points and control lines to make adjustments.

I see so many “minor” changes that you made, some of which I never really noticed the need for before, but after following your changes, I may find things in the future that I missed before.

The last thing I do, is go to edit a different image, or do my email, or anything else, so that I can come back to my PL5 edit with a fresh mind. Sometimes I see the need to go to Topaz AI Sharpen for example, and sometimes I’m no longer interested in my image, and I forget about it. Or, if I see major mistakes in my original photo, I stop work on it, and try to correct them in a future image that I can capture better.

Well, all depends on the pic – and here I could only guess about your intention,
something like "Oh, it’s a foggy day … "*
which typically means reduced sight, low contrast and muted colours.

Further analysing your pic, it looked (or could look !) as if the fog was slowly coming down,
gently covering the buildings with a whitish curtain
→ the upper half of the buildings lost their colours in the haze – a quiet atmosphere.

Now, how to translate this ‘picture’?

Your landscape shot showed a lonely boat, a bit lost next to the constructions.
But there was to much on the pic and the boat right in the center – no, not at all interesting.
→ so, I decided

  • for a square crop (–> static, quiet … )
  • and to contrast the huge building to the small boat (~ 2/3 to 1/3).

[ Also having tried a B&W rendition, but thinking the image graphic was not so good
(not clear enough), I much preferred a muted colour version. ]

so, to follow this idea

  • low contrast, but bright enough (not so dull)
    → Tone curve, Exposure, Highlights
  • Local Adjustments
    → reduce colour, sight & perception of the big construction
    → carefully enhance contrast and colour of the water & the small boat

that’s all :slight_smile:


In general, I also start with perspective adjustments, maybe then crop, adjust black & white point
(Tone curve) and/or exposure, check SmartLighting SpotWeighted and so on.

As just explained a bit lenghty, it really depends on the photo and what I intend to do with.

  • family snaps and/or anything ‘travel light’ ( Panasonic DMC-LX100 )
  • things planned, serious, real travelling, concert photography ( D750/s with a couple lenses )

And yes, it’s a good idea, to lean back and think about the editings
or to come back later or even the next day.

As long as I’m in PL, it’s easy to try something else with virtual copies. But for the ‘real’ work (aka printing) I still prefer PS & Nik to Affinity Photo, ON1. And in case of photobooks I have to use LR’s softproof for colour ‘mass correction’ (really missing that in PL).

My intentions were lacking. I had just awakened, hadn’t even started to get dressed, and noticed the fog, so I stopped, grabbed the Leica and 90mm lens, and went to my balcony, where I noticed the fog was dropping lower and lower, and I had to take a picture right then. I checked the basic settings, rested the camera on my balcony railing (no time for tripod) and took the original image which included too much "stuff. A feel minutes later, I could barely see the boat, and the buildings had vanished.

I am too “stingy” for my own good. I often find it difficult to crop my photos, but it came down to the boat and the buildings, and I wanted the bridge at the right because I thought it added to my composition. From then on, it came down to mostly “basic” edits, straighten, crop, maybe bring out more green in the trees… I never even considered some of the fine tuning you did, such as remove the little bit of building at top left, and enhance the reflection in the water. I never would have cut off the right side of the image, because to me, that balanced the photo better. I didn’t think about "what was the most important thing in the photo, but it always centered around the boat. I never even think about ClearView Plus any more, but you’ve proved to me that it can be useful.

I usually “squint” my eyes, so I just see shapes, not details, and one of the most important things to me is “balance”, that everything in the image looks like a balanced composition.

Some things are done by “default”; I used to select f/8 or so as a reasonable opening, but after @Joanna’s posts, I now select f/10 unless there’s a good reason to do otherwise.

Finally, when I think I’m done and finished, I now think I need to go down the whole set of PL5 tools, and think of whether they might improve the image somehow. I usually do this just once, but you’ve shown me things that in the past, I never would have even considered.

Oh, and a lot of things I do without really thinking much about them - I saw the scene, and decided a 90mm lens would be most appropriate. I moved the camera around until the scene in the Visoflex appeared balanced. My goal was to capture a good image to start from, which I would edit later. Where to point the camera happened without “thinking”; something in my head just knows what I want to achieve, without me needing to think too much. I don’t picture @Joanna taking an image this way - I picture her being certain about every setting, the aim, the level of the camera, the lens, how much (or little) depth of field she wants. Sometimes I do shoot this way, but not when I’m feeling pressed for time.

I actually like the fog, but did a few tiny things nevertheless…

L1004224 | 2022-02-07.dng.dop (13.0 KB)

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Thanks - It looks like you left out the cropped areas that I removed from the right side and the bottom, and you added a graduated filter from each lower corner, moving upwards and inwards, which had the effect of making the fog look even better in the image. Also a lot of negative microcontrast, and a little ClearView Plus. Am I right that the ClearView is what made the trees look better?

I like this view, as it’s so “simple”. I thought the sailboat was needed, but apparently not. If I get a chance to do this again, I’d like to be able to barely see the Miami skyline in the background, but just barely. Maybe I’ll get another chance.

I first added ClearView to intensify and darken the lower RH corner. This made the rest of the image too clear, so I lowered microcontrast. I also changed the WB setting to make the corner cooler - all of these in a single local adjustment.

Lowering microcontrast counteracts ClearView, so I had to see how far I could go.

If you click on the image or download it, you’ll also see the frame(s) I added: a thin black line surrounded by a white frame. The white line inside of the black line came from the conversion caused by the forum software, when it reduced the image’s size.

A little while after sunset tonight, I looked out the window to see fog over the city of Miami in the background, but not at all in the buildings at the right. As I was setting up, the image was getting darker, and the fog seemed to be fading. I put my new 70-300 lens on my original Nikon Df, set to 70mm. I took several shots, while noticing the huge cloud at the top right was moving off to my right, bringing out a lighter sky that was blocked originally. I used a control line to make the city stand out a bit more, as it looked prettier, but that removed some of the fog. I had been watching the sky at the top right, and noticing the shapes and shades, so I brought that out a little, then backed off. Since my white balance is permanently set at 5600K, I warmed the image up a little, as the light at sunset is warm (but at sunrise, it is blue!)

I may have gone too far - all the detail in the sky was actually there, but it didn’t show up very clearly. When I use the ‘COMPARE’ button it’s obvious - but the image looks so much worse that way. The finished image I’d be glad to send to other people, but what I see when I click on ‘COMPARE’ looks like I ought to delete it.

Since the forum is for PhotoLab 5, everyone here is invited to play with it as you wish, and show how you feel it should look. I’m all ears… oops, eyes!

MM1_0028 | 2022-02-11.nef (26.3 MB)
MM1_0028 | 2022-02-11.nef.dop (14.4 KB)

Well, here’s my take on it…

I’ve “placed” the scene a bit “earlier” in order to portray the remnants of the fogginess over the city, that was there earlier, but I used a Control Line to reveal the level cloud detail in the upper sky, above the fogginess.

Unfortunately, you have a major problem - movement blur - as is evident in this zoomed in screenshot…

If you look, it is everywhere, just easier to see with this collection of lights.

Apart from that, the exposure is almost perfect and allows a variety of interpretations.

DOP file…

MM1_0028 | 2022-02-11.nef.dop (8,8 Ko)

You seem to test your tripod / camera combination.
Normally on a tripod, the VR function should be OFF.

But the sailboat strings(?) seem to be sharp.

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Version 1: increased saturation


MM1_0028 | 2022-02-11.nef.dop (13.6 KB)

Version 2: B&W

This night scene does not offer much colour - unless we push it. I’d probably go for B&W instead. I shifted the HSL “white” slider to the left for B&W, “fixed” the burnt patches in the sky and added some drama to the sky with the control line tool. I also thought of getting rid of the red lantern in the lower RH corner, it’s too distracting imo. Maybe cut the lit staircase at the RH edge too, as you did, Mike.

Hey! you don’t have to tell me… well, actually you do. The number of times I have forgotten :crazy_face:

I think he best word is probably rigging

Possibly because they are mainly vertical and the movement was mainly vertical. Unless it’s my imagination combined with poor contrast but one or two of the horizontal “thingies” that support the rigging seem a bit thicker than expected.

I rather like the colour version, especially with the detail in the brighter part of the clouds - very dramatic! But I also thing the B&W is an equally good idea, but with maybe a tad more lightness and contrast in the mid-tones?

I tried to download your DOP file and only got a single version, which looked nothing like either of your exports.

Resaved the sidecar - here it is.
MM1_0028 | 2022-02-11.nef.dop (16.4 KB)

Note my viewing conditions. The mid grey background can change the looks of an image quite a bit!

Lesson learned, again - either use my tripod, or don’t take the photo. Resting the camera on the railing the way I did is not enough, especially for viewing at 100% which amplified every flaw. I should have made time to do so. Fortunately, this is an “easy fix”. My tripod is now all set up, just inside my balcony doors. Should take no more than a minute to bring it outside, attach the tripod adapter, and lock the camera in place.

Your view is closer to what I actually saw, with the city somewhat blanketed with fog.

It’s interesting to me how easily the “mood” of the photo can be changed so much.

Had I mounted the camera on the tripod, I would have forgotten to do this. Not sure if it helped or hurt with the camera resting on the railing as I did.

Twenty years ago, when I was doing race photography with the camera only inches over the ground, I bought one of these soft camera supports. It screws into the tripod hole in the camera, and the bottom is soft to conform to any surface I let it rest on. Not perfect, but it helped tremendously. To get realistic photos of these model racing cars, I needed to get down low enough so the picture seemed to be taken by a miniature camera viewing the car from the same angle as what a tiny person would see were he standing there… Oh, and I used a right-angle viewer too, as the camera was so low…


Soft, flexible camera support, for use when I can’t use a tripod.


Me, covering the FEMCA Championship race in Jakarta, with a borrowed Canon camera kit. Note the right angle finder, and how low I wanted the camera to be to create an illusion of a full-size car in my photos.


Photo take as a joke, after the racing was all finished. I guess in Jakarta, anyone can have guns like these if they can afford them.

Sadly, were I try to do this now, I’d need help standing up after taking the photos.

DxO has a Webinar this coming Tuesday at 1pm Miami time.
• For low-light Landscape images: Discover the best image RAW processing quality using DxO DeepPRIME.
• Control color and details in skies: Local adjustment features based on exclusive U Point™ technology with Control Points and Control Lines with greater precision than ever before.
• Fixing atmospheric issues: Use DxO ClearView Plus’s unique technology for total control over haze, fog, and mist.
• Bring out the hidden details: Balance the dynamic range between bright highlights and deep shadows with DxO SmartLighting’s intelligent technology.

Sign up for Webinar

Should be very helpful!

Thank you for providing the link. DxO doesn’t make it easy to find their upcoming webinars…

You’re welcome. It takes me a long time to find them!

Hopefully they will read this, and promote the Webinars better.
PhotoJoseph is like @Joanna but with audio!

Another “Dull, gray-sky image”…

Around 8:30am this morning I noticed this huge cloud coming towards me, just starting to block out my view of Miami. Fortunately my tripod, D750 and the new 70-300 lens were right at hand, and I took a few photos just as the tops of the buildings were being covered up. By 9am I couldn’t see the city at all, but it looked too boring for a photo. Anyway, this is as far as I got with editing.

A question mostly for @Wolfgang and @Joanna - in my previous attempt at a photo like this, I made the city buildings clearer, but I liked your edits more, with the buildings grayed out. I think @platypus did something similar. I’ve sort of got a similar situation here, but in this photo the “cloud/fog/rain” was completely covering up the top of the buildings, so leaving the lower part more clear emphasized how dense the clouds were. I tried to use ClearView Plus, but kept turning it down, then more down, and finally turned it off. I originally viewed the scene zoomed out, to see more of the city, but kept zooming in more and more. In retrospect I should have zoomed out just a bit more, so the sailboat at the right wouldn’t be decapitated - at the time, I wanted to show “enough” of the cruise ships, without zooming out too much more. I also thought at boosting the difference in the darker gray and the very light cloud, but left it as it is, as that’s what I saw.

I’m lucky to have such a fine “studio” right beyond my balcony!

MM2_0184 | 2022-02-13.nef (29.0 MB)
MM2_0184 | 2022-02-13.nef.dop (12.7 KB)

the interesting part


VC2 → MM2_0184 2022-02-13.nef.dop (71,4 KB)

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I like what you did with the crop, but I don’t think there is enough sky for people to understand the photo. I’ll download your .dop file, and check what else you may have done.

Did you like the tone curve? Copied that idea from @Joanna - was surprised it works so well.

Let’s see… Can I ask a few questions?

  • Why would you prefer it in B&W ? When I click on Compare, I do prefer it in B&W, so I agree, but I never even thought to wonder about this choice.
  • I see how you’ve changed the tone curve - why did you do this? Was this to make the lightest whites a little brighter? That’s what it seems to do.
  • I made a VC3, and put a little of the sky back in, just to the point where the sky starts to turn dark. I like that more, as this huge white cloud of fog and rain is just beginning to cover the city.
  • I see that you used the horizon tool to make the edge of the water “flat”, but that means the buildings at the right are now leaning to the right at their top. I never was aware of that until @Joanna beat it into my head. The buildings at the left, if anything, are leaning the other way. I fixed that with the “parallel lines” tool.

Local adjustments:

  • You have a control line to brighten the shoreline - nice, I never even thought to do something like that.
  • You have a control line that brightens the buildings - not sure why you did it, bit it does improve the image.
  • You have a control line that makes the water darker - turning this on and off, it’s obvious to me now why you did it, but it’s another thing I never would have thought about. It puts the emphasis back on the buildings.
  • Finally, you have an “auto mask - sharpness” for the buildings. I’ve never yet done auto-mask. I obviously need to learn how to do so.

Here’s my renamed original file, no vertical bar, my slightly revised .dop, and my finished edit, with a little more sky and the buildings straightened… I think I’ve learned that when I think I’m finished editing, I need to just sit and look at the image for other changes (such as what you did to the water) that will help.

MM2_0184 | 2022-02-13.nef (29.0 MB)
MM2_0184 2022-02-13.nef.dop (175.0 KB)

…oh, one last question - what tool did you use to turn off the color?

@mikemyers, do you have access to the roof of the building you’re living in? If yes, try to get a few shots from up there (if you like), might be interesting to a) get a different view and b) separate the island from the background.