Preview button for processed image including prime noise and CA on full viewmode

(Alec Kinnear) #2

Peter, this is roughly a duplicate of the Required’s request here: GPU Acceleration. With GPU acceleration and intelligent proxies (what you are asking for), PhotoLab will run spritely enough to edit photos efficiently.

I’m worried we’re splitting the vote for proper performance optimisation. Hopefully DxO will get the message about how strongly their existing users feel about performance. It would be a pity for PhotoLab to become known for its quality but its unusable in a professional setting sluggishness.

Note, other users with large files are complaining about PhotoLab 2 performance. Not just Alec Kinnear with his 5DSR files and Peter (I’m not sure what your primary camera is actually).

(Peter) #3

Hi Alec,
maybe in the base it looks like the same but i am asking for a BIGGER preview window then that small one on the tool of prime. (now it’s a 1/36 of the fullview?) like a magnifying tool to dig in the image. Which works fine when you use the targetingbutton and move the box around. But sometimes you want a completer look of the image processed with Prime. Only way to do that now is export and see.
So i propose a extra button which reveals a box 1/4 of the full view. so you can see the hole image in four replacements of this box processed with prime and by zoom in out to box format you get the 75% isch view also.(because zoom % is based on pixel count and not fullview percentage its variable.)

This preview of 1/4 is cost you waiting time do the prime calculating and processing so to avoid unwanted delay use a activation button like that target button for moving the box around.

Same for Chromatic Aberration repair which only is visible on preview at 75%? and other things.
So infact i want a “pre-export all proces done view” on demand. in which i can go from fullview to 400% without be worried if a correction is applied yet in the view or not.

And to be not drain the proccessor-time too much i settle for 1/4 of the fullview. :grinning:

a simple G80. and not a 1000+ image to process. So indeed i am in a other corner then you about speed of processing.

Non the less indeed my old silkypix which i configured for realtime proccesing and preview is as fast as DXOPL which avoid the realtime proccessing for Prime and CA.
So yes preformance as in speeding up processing is needed.


I haven’t enough knowledge to support or deny this statement but i support your and others wish for faster engine by using alternatives for the core processor in terms of viewing rendering.

edit 2: i changed the header to clearify the subject more.

(Alec Kinnear) #4

Thanks for the clarification Peter. A much bigger preview window would make preview even slower and complicate the interface. There could be an option to double its height though without damaging the interface. That option could be in preferences. Or just double the height of the preview window in Prime mode as there’s an option to close it anyway. There’s no point to the preview in Fast Noise Reduction as by the time it’s calculated, the whole image has been processed anyway. It’s there just to keep the interface consistent when switching between Fast Noise Reduction and Prime. I’d love to have access to the sliders with no thumbnail preview at all. I see the additional sliders are access with a + button. Perhaps the preview window should get its own plus or minus button. Or be moved to its own “100% Preview” palette, which by default would be above the Noise Reduction palette. There’s some space for improvement here.

Yet I’d far rather see DxO work on seriously speeding up the whole preview interface and the sliders with intelligent proxies which automatically show everything which is in the viewer window quickly, for SD and 4K monitors.

(Peter) #5

Let me clarify more by images:

Present previewbox and window in prime tool activate target button to move around
fine by me as in it works.

What i ment by extra button for preview noise and other distortion

Second example purple fringing:

This CA/purplefringing is making my overal view look worse then it actual is.

This is how it works now. and most of the time good enough/fine to investigate.

i should toggle by slider the CA purple fringing off/on but i can’t see this. :thinking:

Lets assume there is a “preview hole image” button somewhere which is do the hole processing for exporting jpeg BUT NOT actual export and produce a Jpeg! looking like this but at full resolution and availbe for investigate at 100% of less or more.
And again just when you want, not on all images but on demand.
This way you can see all effective corrections on your screen to check before export a jpeg to your HD-folder. (now i need to delete the export jpeg if not satisfied and produce a second one after correction settings because i get overwrite or confusion about which is the one i keep.)

By On Demand i can choose if i want to delay my developement and check or continu to the next one.

Yes toggle by target button.

(Alec Kinnear) #6

I see your frustration with the purple fringing. Why wouldn’t you just bring the purple fringing up at 100% to correct?

Way too complicated for my tastes Peter. If DxO add intelligent proxies and GPU acceleration, there’s no reason you or I would not be able to see the portion of the image visible at 100% in the main window in real time.

Prime Noise reduction is the only place where real time preview wouldn’t work (it is slow). There’s no reason not to carry on with a double height preview window for Prime Noise and the same cross-hairs seeker.

I’d really suggest that DxO focus on a real fix to the problem of slow sliders/interface and long delays waiting on “Correction Preview”. The real fix is a combination of intelligent proxies and GPU acceleration. If PhaseOne can offer a real time interface, DxO can get there too.

Some users have complained that C1 preview is not accurate. The problem is real but not insurmountable: proxy rendering must be managed with great care.

I’ve suggested a solution in the past – there should be an option to toggle “Exact” and “Fast Preview”. Some photographers want to see full resolution, uncompressed 14-bit preview at time or all the time. Most of the time I don’t need that but sometimes I’d like to go back to the current “Exact” preview just to make sure that the proxys and GPU calculated versions I’m seeing are not too far off the real thing, or to do a final full quality preview before export.

(Peter) #7

The point is that Purple Fringing is only in preview “repaired” when zoomed in at 75%
So a overview of the hole image is not “repaired” and this influence your viewed image quality feeling.

Prime Noise reduction can’t be done realtime in preview but it can be done when asked by a “virtual export”. (process the file and pop up full screen view of this temporaly file.)

My point is if i want a image examen if its ok, done, maximalised, it has to be not be altered of some point. (like the 75% barrier for sharpening/microcontrast and CA.)
If i want to “watch a completed image” i need to export it with a label “test” and look at it in Faststone image viewer.

Yes this would work: Present preview is the “fast” and exact would be realtime rendering.

But then again if the core system is slow at this time for bigger rawfiles they need to fix that first before they intensify the rendering calculations.

for me open cl doesn’t help much:

(Alec Kinnear) #8

I still don’t understand why you don’t just boost your image up to 100% and do your chromatic aberration correction at 100%.

(Peter) #9

It isn’t about full image correction, i do that at 100%, it’s about the threshold of some applied corrections before they show on the preview image inside dxo workspace.
say you have corrected contrast, applied clearview and did some other stuf which only is visible at 75% and above.
Zoomed in al looks ok, but after export you see the combined corrections overcooked the image.
Then you have to delete the overcooked , go in the raw files search for the right one redo that one , export, place back in you check folder look again, in case of wrong again ,go back, etc.

I would rather hit button, get a full view to examen(zoom til needed), hit “esc” do some correction or go to the next one. Even when this is slowing my process down. Because the alternative is worse.

I would check this inside the workspace so i can change some things before export.
Best way is a non changing image preview at all zoom factors. (Full image-400%)

Again a button which brings a proccessed image on screen on demand is good enough.

(Alec Kinnear) #10

Peter, what you are asking for is a pipe dream: full quality at all zoom levels with ultra fast processing and powerful tools. No RAW tool offers that. C1 and Lightroom compromise on quality of previews, people complain about that. Before C1 and Lightroom users complained about speed of previews (as I do now about PhotoLab). As far as I know (and I use PhotoLab almost every day), PhotoLab previews are at 100% quality but slow. I was happy to find out that at 75% and less PhotoLab does prepare a proxy preview image at the lower resolution.

If you want to preview final quality just do it at 100%. This is really a non-issue. It’s the kind of situation which makes software developers throw up their hands in despair: no matter what they do, you will be unhappy.

(Peter) #11

No only for viewing, no tools needed. I think we have a translation error.
i don’t need or want full quality and fast editing on every zoomlevel.
All i need/want is a virtual export of my selected image.
when i choose this view no editing or changing is possible.
i litterly want a export to disk image but not saved outside in a folder but just on screen.
A image which isn’t changing it’s pixels or sharpness or CA correction or contrast or lenssharpness (all threshold 75% things) around there threshold of view.

Just a button: full view export to SCREEN. Preferable at the same way as a real image to disk export so you can work on other images wile waiting, only not saved on disk.

But if you just want export to disk and catch the jpeg in a folder examen therewith a viewer and delete if new editing is necessary. go in DxOPL workspace redo something export again in the folder, examen again, delete go back redo somthing, export again in folder…
I think a virtual export to a popup viewer isn’t a dispare thing.

And if you can have a display quality setup choise like i described you can personal choose how fast you like the workspace working for you.

  • Fast for culling purposes and quick batch editting, (exposure, cropping, things which don’t need the full rendering of the image to give you speed in switching between images.
  • present way, the 75% threshold version. for the full editing at quality image mode the one by one.

Add that virtual export to screen option and we are both happy.

Again no 100% editing mode only viewing one by one when selected.

(Alec Kinnear) #12

In this case, there is export and preview. Just add a good image viewer (LilyView is great on Mac) and open up your image on export. Still out of most of the feature suggestions, this one is one of the least onerous: virtual export to a preview function. The real issue is that if DxO do give us this virtual preview, the thirty seven changes and improvements the horde here will ask for to the preview, effectively turning it into the existing editor.

Honestly the accurate preview at 100% should be enough to get the job done. What would help is a speed option which would differ from what we have now in that processing would not be done on all the pixels but just what’s in the viewer. If you change what is in the viewer it would have to re-process the new bit, but again in express form. The 75% view is an early form of that kind of rapid preview and would work for me if DxO can just accelerate the fit to screen preview further…

(Peter) #13

geesh, nope, like a export action. Apply all correction edits open a viewer like we already have as “full view” no tools aside.

This is a real "export to disk/aplication " action as we already have.

Don’t know what you mean by this, (other then if you give a finger they take your hand.)

maybe i can explain by Goto 3.2.4. Coarse Preview
This is what you (and i) want: a Coarse preview mode and a develop preview mode.
i like also a preview in full frame where all image related things EXCEPT PRIME (too much time delay) HQ is enough is applied on.(edit: no extra button in workspace only in display/preformenssettings)

But there feature list is allready big and behind so i think i go mute and don’t ask for more and start to wait until they catch up.

(Alec Kinnear) #14

Peter, what you want is already there. Prime does not show up in previews ever (we get HQ Fast in preview). I don’t want anything complicated like in SilkyPix. PhotoLab should remain intuitive. There should be a fast preview mode and a full pixel perfect mode.

The current setup is okay: 100% and over is pixel perfect. 75% and under is fast preview. I just want fast preview to be faster. Not sure what should be done with between 75% and 100%: DxO decided to make it pixel perfect as the time savings with only a few pixels shaved off were inconsequential. If DxO ever make a proper fast preview mode (the current fast preview is not fast), then it would make more sense to have fast preview up to 100% and pixel perfect from 100% on.

The alternative which would also suit me is a prominent button to switch between pixel perfect and fast preview at any resolution level. I’d so almost all my work in fast preview, only switching to pixel perfect when I was almost finished with an image and double-checking for any aliasing or chromatic aberration or strange interaction with noise reduction.

Pixel perfect would almost qualify as the soft proofing some are asking for (there could be an option to apply a soft proofing filter in preferences, default being to standard sRGB, out of trouble’s way, although the soft proofing brigade won’t be happy until there’s fifteen or seventeen hand-tweakable variables).

(Peter) #15

See we want the same.
We only approach the house from the other end of the street.

Final conclusion: Give us a dedicated button or short-key to switch between coarse (fastpreview)preview and develop(pixelperfect) preview. :grin:

What i would like now you mention this, is a visualisation of the colorspace and the image’s colors to see if the image is inside the (sRGB )colorspace.
So a “clipping tester.”
They build in this feature in the clipping warning and histogram .
Those colors are not only luminance warnings but also color saturation warnings.
So they “only” need to visualize this warning in a colormapping …
Also called a soft proofing.
(i never missed it until i knew it is out there. :wink:)

Com to think of it, to keep it simple, you can use four dots white, (luminance), Red, Green, Blue in the histogram tool…
When the Dot is highlighted that color(s) is out of gamma/ over saturated.
This way you can see if lumination or colorsaturation is the probleem which cause the highlight warning to be active.
Turndown until the dot is “off”

No visualization in a difficult colorspace picture is needed

(Alec Kinnear) #16

I’d far, far rather have a better colour tool than the Hue/Saturation/Lightness and/or Channel Mixers. Something like the Color Editor in C1. Throw in a more powerful white balance tool like their Color Balance while we’re at it. DxO developers can’t do it all. It’s important they spend their time wisely.

These feature requests make me think of the Aladdin’s lamp, the genie and the three wishes.

(Peter) #17

Yes that’s one of my older requests.
Much more important then preview modes or blinkie help aids.
the blinkie saturation is already active. (it’s not a feature request only a thought) if you use the RGBL channels you can see the results.
Only thing they need to do is link the characters . But for me no need in the short future. So it wasn’t a request only something what can be handy in the correct form or tool setting.

I want first a white level and blacklevel eyedropper (ETTR and ETTL) and a WB colorcorrection like i earlier showed. The one which can easily correct colorcasting or WB errors.

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(Alec Kinnear) #18

Yes, I’m desperate for a blacklevel eyedropper as well. It would radically improve my images and/or shorten my processing time (I can get there without it but it takes quite a bit of time). Our priorities seem fairly closely aligned: to make an excellent RAW developer a great RAW developer by adding the tools which really matter to make images better.

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(Peter) #19

May i point you towards This thread about luminosity, contrast and such.
Edit, i disagree about the use of both smart lighting and exposure compensation, , they can be used together and be usefull with that. By using the boxes to pointout the places of interest you can use that for limitations, thresholds, so you can use that wile lowering or lifting general exposure.
Some things i understand more now but i still stand behind my old first comments.

Now a day’s there are such a row of contrast influencing tools and sliders that you can undo things of earlier settings wile activating an other.
Certainly when the magic wants are active.

This is also a thing when you keep adding “functions and tools” without investigating there connections, wanted and unwanted.

Finetuning existing tools is a higher priority then adding new one’s.
Like magic brush, after the painting you want to see what the auto shape sees as selected,so you can correct. Now you need to use the eraser to be sure.

That said, ive bin joining DxOPL in v1.1 and they are come a long way sins then.
Not all things are at this moment fully bloomed , cof, dam cof, but the are building structures for the benefit of most users in general and some things have to grow slowly (on you)… Can’t wait to see and use the win v3.0 version.
From what i saw in the mac version i like it.

(Jim Scott) #20

Not following You here Peter.

I am assuming when You say “magic brush” You are referring to “Auto mask”. What I mainly do not understand is the reference of the “need to use the eraser to be sure” in regards to visualizing “what the auto shape sees as selected”.

You can easily see what “Auto mask” selects by turning OFF the “Show Masks” checkbox (bottom of the Viewer window) and pump up the exposure. As You slide the cursor around on the image (i.e. “paint”) the selected areas light up (or on a high key image make the exposure much darker). Please see Fig.1.

Of course after You make your selection(s) then one might need to use the “Eraser” tool. But it is easier to see what to erase (if needed) with a highly differentiated selection.

Then after your selection is correct re-adjust the exposure as needed and make other local adjustment corrections as appropriate on that mask.

Fig.1 Using “Auto mask” with the exposure pumped up for selection area feedback

(Peter) #21

Oeh , yes indeed AutoMask, when i paint with the brush it turns effected area blue, also the outerparts of a object which would be not effected.

Geesh! Never thought of your solution! Great workaround.

Thanks for this .:slightly_smiling_face:

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