PL6 DNG export options

Hi, in the new PL6 I get this export option:

image

whereas in PL5 I had simply “all corrections applied”

In the online manual the option discussed is “all corrections applied” too, nothing explains “without color rendering” .

Could anyone please clear this up? Thanks!

@sgospodarenko – please take note and pass this on

It’s important to a lot of users.

See PL6 export options in the online manual.
Exporting options with Lightroom

… which says something different → post #1


but welcome in the Forum :slight_smile:

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We should introduce en new version of RTFM: RTFOP :rofl:

Anyway, I really would like to have an explanation: I had serious color issues when exporting as DNG when opening the files in other software (support tickets opened several times but no progress has been made) and now still have issues but they’re a bit different. Many issues regarding color spaces. I need to know exactly what “except color rendering” means.

It’s all very amateurish. I’m an advanced user and need to know how my tools work exactly.

For now, PF6 broke my workflow and didn’t solve any of the issues I had in PL5, and on top of that the new DeepPrime doesn’t support X-Trans. So basically, it’s a regression for my personal usecase. Certainly not a major version release for Fujifilm shooters. I don’t understand why DxO releases new major versions when there are still major bugs pending and not fixing them. I feel that PL5 has never been out of beta stage, and now we’re starting to debug PL6? I’m a paying customer, guys… I want a finished product, I can tolerate the occasional “minor bug” but not totally unpredictable output.

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The wording is maybe weird.

But I did the a test to be sure.

Created a virtual copy of a file, reset it back to DxO standard, and exported it as DNG with all corrections (This was done in DxO Photolab 5.4).

Then started up Photolab6, opened the virtual copy that was there, and exported to DNG with ‘all corrections (Except color rendering)’.

Then I opened up the DNG’s in Darktable with no modules applied there, and they are pretty much identical. No differences that I can spot while toggling between the images.

Then I opened up the file in PL5.4 again, applied the Filmpack Velvia 50 rendering in the ‘color rendering’ module. The colors clearly changed. I exported it again as DNG ‘with all corrections’.

Then I opened up PL6, opened the previous edit. I saw the same - clearly different - colors with Velvia 50 applied. I exported as DNG ‘with all corrections (except Color Rendering)’.

Again I imported the two DNGs in Darktable, had a look at them… and there were no differences between the two.
AND… the colors were clearly different in the last two DNG’s in Darktable as well.

So the behavior seems to be exactly the same as previous versions, no matter what the label says.

That being said, it makes sense for DNG output to not apply all kinds of edits. The raw editor you’re going to open the DNG in, is also going to apply it’s camera profile and other stuff. So I think they wanted to clarify that not all settings from the Color Rendering are applied, but apparently some still are from my test.

Also, I’ve been using DxO in front of other RAW editors for years now. And most of the time I disable the ‘color rendering’ module because I do not want DxO to touch that part of the camera data, and leave it to the other RAW editors.
But I’ve done tests. And loading an original raw into Adobe ACR and then loading a DxO DNG into Adobe ACR. Both writing to tif, then pixel peeping the exported TIFS → no color difference.

The same when loading them into Darktable. No color difference / color shift or whatever when comparing the original raw vs the DxO output… unless I actually touched the colors in DxO of course :slight_smile: .

Example of the type of issue I encounter: I load a raw in PL6, apply a film simulation, export as DNG, and also a copy as tiff. Load both in Lightroom: the tif looks like what I see on screen in PL6, the DNG doesn’t. THis is with the new wide gamut: with the old gamut it’s even worse.

This is exported from the tiff:

and this from the dng:

But this forum doesn’t display the images correctly at all, so you must dowload and use your usual viewer to asses the differences. I just can’t believe it that a company like DxO has a forum that doesn’t colormanage correctly. (Only photography-related forum I ever saw that has issues with color rendering!)

Hi,
the forum is running browser based, and at the moment I’m not sure if all browsers are running with colormanagement. For the older firefox versions you have to activate color management with about:config take a look here Colour Management Problem with Firefox

best regards

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Thanks, but sorry, I’ve been doing this for ages and have no issue with colormanagement in my browsers on any other photography website. My Firefox has full colormanagement enabled (and is up to date), and so is Chrome. This forum software just seems to strip off any colorspace information.

You can also download the images from my personal server:

The tif version:
https://offringa.freeboxos.fr:16871/share/rIzDRyvuTSJT_zhk/DSCF0499_X-H1_DxO-2_TIF.jpg

The dng version:
https://offringa.freeboxos.fr:16871/share/8A1o6S3NIw3-6O5-/DSCF0499_X-H1_DxO-2_DNG.jpg

Dear Dirk,

no problem I believe you. I made this answer only because lot of people don’t know about this settings

have fun

Guenter

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In a way thats expected right ?

Lightroom is seeing the DNG as a raw from your camera , and is applying it’s own color correction and the default tone curve to the data.

Telling Adobe ACR / Lightroom to not actually touch the data or apply hidden default settings is a touch thing to do.

As usual, unfortunately, DxO hasn’t finished rewriting the user guide. The current user guide for PhotoLab 6 is outdated when it comes to the linear DNG export options:

Exporting images – PhotoLab Guidelines (dxo.com)

I think we can assume that the “Export to DNG (Denoise and optical corrections only)” option is unchanged. The only other option makes it clear that when applying all corrections the Color Rendering options are never applied. Reading DxO’s documentation on linear DNG workflows (including the PL6 user guide - see for example #10 on the page I linked to), I get the impression that the new exclusion of color rendering is to ensure that nothing non-linear is written to the linear DNG output. So no color space info, no color profiles…

People were having problems with using PhotoLab 5’s linear DNG output in Adobe software. For example:

Maybe this is a correction. Would be nice to hear from DxO about this, but maybe this helps in the meantime?

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Well, it actually includes the filmsims we apply in PL6, which are part of the “color rendering”. So that’s not what this is about…

It’s with regard to the new color workspace, not things like overlaying film type presets or other settings which affect color.

Mark

If so, it would have been great if the new workspace was Prophoto instead of some propriétary thing. Anyway, the result is that if we open a raw in PL6, apply a filmsim, export as DNG to Lightroom we get something else than intended and I have no clue how to tell Lightroom or CaptureOne to display it correctly. It’s basically a lottery: unpredictable, sometimes we get happy accidents but it’s frustration most of the time.

I know some will now try to convince me (once more) that I don’t need Lightroom when I have PL 1/2/3/4/5/6 but please don’t, you’re not going to talk me out of it :wink: and editing an exported .tiff is nowhere near editing a DNG.

@Photo-DKO

check here → Brand New DxO PhotoLab 6 Feature Review - YouTube
At 3:22 Robin Whalley shows the usual horseshoe w/ DxO’s Wide Gamut WCS.
:slight_smile:

I have no intention of trying to convince you of anything. Use whichever software or software combination you prefer. I was just responding to your comment.

Mark

I didn’t direct this towards anyone in particular.

I assumed that. But since you mentioned it in a post just following my own, I felt obliged to mention it…

Mark

PhotoLab exports linear DNGs. My understanding is that these don’t have color space info written to them - at least, not in PL6. So it shouldn’t matter what the DxO Wide Gamut working color space is - just that it’s wide enough to preserve the camera’s native color space rather well. If the RAW color data was pushed/transformed into a different color space, then the data wouldn’t be linear anymore, right? (If I’m misunderstanding, please explain. Thanks.)

Linear-DNG - DxO

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