Photolab 5 Today?

There’s a huge community of pro users on C1 who share amazing tutorials on how to get the most out of layer masks, its superior colour tools and its new healing tools to create astonishing professional work. <<

Alec; I agree on that.
A lot of professionals are using C1 Pro and as far as I can see they get great results. So; If they can, there is no reason you can’t.
Well; I do have latest version of Capture One 21 Pro and I started with Capture One Pro 8 but I still don’t understand all the hype about it. I don’t like it much so I don’t use it much.

I also don’t understand Mojave and other ‘desert’ operating systems because I don’t use and I newer will use Apple computers. If you want to run Photolab 5 you need to upgrade OS from Mojave to something else. But you can’t upgrade because you would need to buy new computer to upgrade. What the hell? Do you need to buy a new Mac each time to upgrade OS?

I sure would not blame DxO. I would say there is something wrong with Apple. They are forcing users to buy new comps if they want to upgrade.

I’m running 8 years old PC and I upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 with no issues (without buying new PC) and I run Photolab 5 as I write this on 8 years old Win 10 PC with no issues and without buying a new PC. Looks like Win 10 will be supported till 2025 but I thing I will upgrade my old PC sooner and also update to Win 11.

So, if Photolab does not run on Mojave desert OS (or whatever desert is there on Mac comps) looks like you have 3 options:
-buy new comp, upgrade OS and run Photolab 5
-do not buy anything new and run Photolab 4
-do not buy anything new and run something else like C1 Pro

You could also write some emails to Apple like….
I use Mac comps forever and I’m a loyal customer and now you are forcing me to buy new comp to upgrade OS …. etc. If you don’t fix this I will tell everybody not to buy Apple and I will switch to Windows and I will never buy Apple again.

Alec, The only reason that DxO start counting backwards from Monterey is that, within a week or two of their planned release for PL5, that is what the current OS was going to be and they had to plan for that and PL5 had to be made ready for it as if it were the current release.

It might not have been the 32 bit issue (I was guessing) but, certainly, catering for the new architecture and having to support older versions and maintain conditional code, that can sometimes amount to a second code base, is definitely not a place any smaller software house wants to be in.

It’s always painful to have to throw out perfectly serviceable hardware, just because the latest OS will not run on it. I had to ditch a perfectly good MacBook Pro 17", bought in April 2007 and finally replaced in December 2019 when I had to move to Catalina for development work. I reckon 12 years is not a bad life.

The main thing I really don’t like about Apple’s newer machines is the fact that you can no longer upgrade the disks or memory, which they sell at eye-watering prices.

By the way, anyone interested in an old aluminium tower Mac Pro? :rofl:

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Now that sounds like a much better idea. It would also take the pressure off smaller software houses. It has taken me around two years to write my app and now I’m having to go through testing the whole thing again because Apple decided to change the UI/UX of macOS with Big Sur - a look I hate, system sounds I detest and a different UI, designed to look more like iOS, that I think looks a little Fisher-Price

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You can run 8 year old Macs with the latest macOS as well, which is quite reasonable hardware support I think.

The problem is that DxO has worse support for older versions of macOS compared to competitors like C1 and Exposure. DxO is the only software I use that would require a hardware upgrade for me to continue with PL5. The consequence is just that I won’t be upgrading to PL5 and may well just drop PhotoLab and stick with software that lets me get more life out of my otherwise usable hardware.

Unless you’re a die hard Apple user that needs to run the latest versions of all of their window dressing, there’s little (I would say nothing) in these yearly releases that necessitates an upgrade. They’re more like Windows service releases than anything of real substance for the user, and much software runs just fine on older releases. (I’m writing this on a 2010 MacBook Pro running current - 4, aka Sierra.) DxO is just dropping support more aggressively than others.

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You can run 8 year old Macs with the latest macOS as well, which is quite reasonable hardware support I think.

No, you can’t. If this statement were true, you could install Big Sur or soon Monterey on your device. But Apple decided after Mojave to stop providing updates for your 8 year old machine. They haven’t made a statement about it, but it looks like Mojave won’t get security updates anymore either.

Why aren’t you on the Apple forum demanding the new OS updates for your hardware? You would have a current, secure operating system with which you could also use the new version of Photolab.

The only Mac of mine you know about is the 2010 MacBook Pro that I mentioned, which is 11 years old. No, I can’t run Big Sur on that, and I don’t want to run PhotoLab on it either.

Here are the hardware requirements for Big Sur.

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Some people seem to be suffering from reading comprehension issues. I’ll try to keep it simple. Knocking on Apple’s door has nothing to do with anything.

The yearly Apple updates are banal and pointless. OS X has not really improved in any substantial way since 10.6. Apple is just moving the cheese around to make life difficult for third-party developers and to have something to announce in their yearly feature lists. Apple’s goal with these endless updates is to force people to buy more computers.

I’m not concerned with what Apple does. Apple has lost me as a customer many, many years ago. Since Apple has made their hardware almost impossible to upgrade or even repair, my company buys very few Apple computers and when we buy, we buy used known good models, pre-butterfly keyboard. The new generation M1 will eventually make its way into our system as it’s the first real improvement in over a decade: runs cooler, runs fast, long battery life, good graphic performance without fans running. The latest laptops come with what appear to be reliable keyboards and a reasonable complement of ports including MagSafe (why MagSafe should be on version three and not on v1 or v2 is a mystery – to force more charger sales, we run MagSafe 1 chargers everywhere with MagCozy so we can use a single set of chargers for every MBP at our house or in the office).

When Apple made repairable hardware with a proper set of ports, we bought a lot of Macs and I bought a new MacBook Pro every year or two, either reselling them or passing them on in the company. We don’t use iCloud, iMessage, Apple Music or any of Apple’s lock-in privacy-free cloud crap services.

So that the relationship with Apple – hostile, minimalist. Why do we keep using Apple computers? We want tor run first-rate third-party software like DxO PhotoLab (just one of many). The alternative is Windows spyware by design. While PhotoLab would run on Windows, most of our third party software we like would not. Anyone who suggests again I stop using Mac computers is a dunderhead who has not understood any of the above and is incapable of basic logic.

I’ll help. I loathe Apple but there’s one alternative. Windows. And Windows is significantly worse, with its own list of issues such as hideous user interface, insecure by design, spyware by design. Moreover I really like the third party shareware Mac developers and their software and don’t much like the freeware and inexpensive PC software (FastStone stands out as a company much to admire, though as the software is made for Windows is pretty ugly).

Returning once again to the main point – I don’t care what Apple does any more. I don’t trust them, I don’t like them. Companies who don’t pay their taxes, try to screw their customers out of legitimate warranty issues (built-in graphic cards which burn out, built-in keyboards which randomly break, built-in screens which fail), who don’t respect the environment and who fight right to repair in court just aren’t on my Christmas card list. I will do Apple no favours. I’m not a friend of theirs, I will not recommend to most people on Windows that they switch (sadly I did switch many, many people in the period from twenty years ago until ten years ago).

But this is not about Apple. This is about DxO who are running a draconian compatibility policy: OS -1. It’s not what DxO was doing when I first spent €250 on their software and it’s not what I signed up for. The shenanigans with Nik releases has been contemptible. The OS -1 policy is not acceptable and is customer-hostile.

All DxO has to do here is match CaptureOne’s compatibility policies and live up to their original OS -2 policies.

Some sharp stick in operations in DxO thinks he can pull a fast one on the customers and not provide any kind of reasonable OS support. This will save money for DxO he says as he rubs his greedy palms together, we’ll be rich he cackles, no one will notice.

Wrong answer. We will notice. Professional photographers will continue to ignore DxO despite the good engineering. Loyal customers will be angry. Word-of-mouth (already pretty shaky after four dubious Nik upgrades) will turn negative.

Any theoretical savings (and they are not very big, PhotoLab is a cross-platform application so it is not entirely dependent on Apple or Windows built-in libraries) are long up in smoke over the long term marketing fiasco which OS -1 will bring down on DxO’s head.

CaptureOne manages to do OS -3 (keep in mind C1 releases later than PhotoLab). What the heck is wrong with DxO? Professional apps maintain OS -2. If DxO cannot manage OS -2, they are positioning themselves as software for amateurs only.

Hello Adobe Lightroom Classic, DXO is sleeping…:thinking::-1:

If DxO cared about their customers, there are ways to mitigate this self-inflicted damage.

  1. DxO could release a Mojave compatible version which missed out on performance optimisation for DeepPrime as those improvements do seem to be related to changes in Apple’s OS. “Improved performance on Catalina and Big Sur.” could be the one feature which we don’t get.
  2. If there are still too many incompatibilities to release a full PhotoLab 5 for Mojave (don’t think this is the case but would like to know more before I make a definitive statement), DxO could unlock some of the PhotoLab 5 features in PhotoLab 4 for users who purchase PhotoLab 5 licenses.

In my case, what I really want from the PhotoLab 5 feature list are the improvements to local adjustments. I.e. the ability to control luminance and chroma sensitivity in the U-point masks.

I’d also very much like the Fuji X-Trans compatibility but it’s less urgent. I’d also like the ability to choose which corrections to copy and paste although again, I can make do by simply resetting horizon and crop after every copy/paste of image settings. I mostly use Presets to apply my base settings and it’s always been possible to include and exclude adjustments in presets.

For the performance improvements, I could wait a year or eighteen months for when I decide to buy an Apple M1 computer. I don’t ever need the troubled pseudo-DAM.

DxO should stop spending so much time looking after their own needs and worry more about us, their customers. If DxO did that, its customers would take care of DxO: good word of mouth, unpaid marketing, more pro users, more free tutorials (by people who are first-rate published photographers with advanced techniques).

There’s lots of solutions but DxO would prefer to stiff arm their customers and exclude themselves from the professional market. As I said, own goal extraordinaire.

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Most Mac people I know accept the Apple philosophy of negligible backward compatibility of OS’s (the reverse of Windows, (I am still able to run software from the 1990’s :slight_smile: ) and treat it as part of the Apple experience. Shrug their shoulders and pay up :slight_smile: This policy does allow Apple to do things that Windows simply can’t, users choose which poison they want. :slight_smile:
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