I’m glad at least one did read that link. 
The article also discusses what a good photographer must meet, what qualifications he must have.
If you’re interested you should buy his book ‘House of Bondage’, just republished.
George
It’s been a while since I was active here. I guess I was feeling a little “down” because the types of images I was interested in didn’t excite many of you. I think I have learned enough about PhotoLab that maybe I can just “use it” rather than trying to learn more about it - although there is a LOT that I have left to learn. Then I got very involved in my Bullseye Shooting, which ate up a lot of time.
I also started to miss the discussions we had here. I always enjoyed them, for many reasons. That led to getting re-interested in taking photos, likely of the old and “famous” sections of Miami Beach, the landmarks that Miami Beach is famous for, but about that time, some goofball drove his giant Chevy Suburban into the back of my tiny Mazda while I was stopped waiting for traffic to move again. So, my Miata is in the shop, and there is a chance I’ll get it back in two weeks, maybe.
Earlier today, I went looking around for fairly recent images that I hadn’t really investigated too much, and found several of an interesting sunset scene over Biscayne Bay. I guess that’s the last thing that anyone here wants to see, but it looked to me like a fun image to work with. I tried to do it in B&W, but it was lacking something, so I turned the color faucet back on. (I think I tried to edit it months ago, but gave up on it.)
If anyone’s about to shoot me for yet another Miami Sunset Photo, go ahead. If nothing else, it got what’s left of my creative juices flowing again. My D780 is all set to go at a moment’s notice, and ditto for my M10. A couple of months ago, I sent my M8.2 in to Leica to have them map out some bad pixels - and they took the opportunity to make the whole camera “like new”, even as far as replacing the leather, er, vulcanite. I just got it back from the repair shop two days ago. If I start to use that camera for creative work, @Joanna will dump all over me, as I’ve got better tools, but I enjoy using my old cameras, and I think the whole reason I do photography is because I enjoy it. Given an assignment, if I ever get one again, I’ll use the best camera for whatever I’m trying to do.
I’m surprised nobody commented, for better or worse, over my version of the jet fighter plane up above, with more of the details brought out - but I’ve accepted that “details” to me are much more important than they are to others.
About this photo - I just kept trying different tools until I got something I enjoyed. I haven’t seen another scene even similar to this in ages - since last November, when I took this series of photos. At the time I had a very different idea about what the image “was”, but I kept cropping things away until I got down to what I enjoyed.
Gee, I wonder if the rest of you have all moved on? I dunno…
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L1004657 | 2022-11-12.dng.dop (16.4 KB)
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Hi Mike,
Nobody else has made a comment so I will. The picture as it is, looks very menacing. It looks like a hurricane and the eye of the storm is the clear patch on the left. I do wonder if there is any chance of recovering any detail in the very centre that looks burnt out. Also, have you tried recovering more details in the cloud and foreground.
I have not downloaded the information as I do not believe in working on other people’s pictures.
Nice to see you getting back to photography and taking the pictures that you like for yourself. As far as guns are concerned. I had enough of that in the forces.
I suppose it does help to get any anger out of the system. My method was to take it out on the badminton court against the opponents.
Funny, your commend is what i thought.
I have a moment of time to burn other then working in my new house.
Tomorrow ,on my birthday non the less, i will take out suspiciuos plates in my garage wrap them in plastic and bring them to the dump. To day we scored some new discounted bathroom stuff to revive the bit worn out stuff in the bathroom. Got some sunpanel stuff delivered for later. Now we are drinking thee and wait for an other delivery.
Only photo’s i take is “before” “during” “after” in my new residence.
About badminton, i play competition from my 12th til now 54 minus 1 day 
i am stil enjoying it but the body is strugling now and then but many games i can still win so i am not done yet in the 5th divisie.
Anyway, @mikemyers , don’t be gloomy everyone is entitle to do what they like in photo’s making and editing.(within the law ofcoarse)
Some strong advises and maybe you have experienced it as pounding, was caused by opposite opinions and holding ground. Just except that people are different and life goes on.
Your sunset image.
Idea is good, colors are good. Framing is a bit blunt straight into the sun. Hence the very dark image around it.(But if the framing was intented that’s what you get.)
This frame screams for bracketing approache.
If you lift the shadows globaly they will gray out and lose the details i am afraid.
But try out some moderest smart lighting with boxes to enhance some area’s.
Leave the highlight and darkest points as be.
(if smartlighting doesn’t work use local adjustment’s control line and points.)
Or the tonecurve and gamma settings.
This would enhance details in the clouds, make the building at the right more detailed.
But leave the water and boats down left as dark as they are.
Then you get a natural eyeguiding from front right along the building through the bright sun pointing at the skyline in the distance and then you wonder of to the left to the sunglared sky.
If i had more time i would show you.
Regards Peter
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@George. Thanks for that George. I think at the moment, I prefer yours, but with the same crop that @mikemyers has done. It still looks fairly dramatic and menacing, but not quite as much as Mike’s. Both impressive.
I also played competitively until I had to give up because of rheumatoid arthritis. I could not keep hold of the racket. I also coached it for 37 years.
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Maybe because of the mood I was in, “menacing” is exactly what I wanted to show. Shown on a white background, it loses a lot. With PhotoLab’s dark gray background, it is much more effective, to me at least. PhotoLab doesn’t show the white area as burnt out, but I didn’t, and don’t, like it. When I tried to get rid of it, the “orange” area surrounding it showed up. I liked that, and I liked the “star” rings, but I just got frustrated about the burnt out area. I had a sequence of shots, some before that area got so bright, but then there were no more star rings. In retrospect, I ought to have tried using one of those images. Maybe tonight.
Yes, it was fun to get back into PhotoLab. I even went walking around yesterday “hunting” for photos, but nothing I saw was worth capturing. About the bullseye shooting, what I do is “precision” shooting, meaning hitting something the size of a half-dollar ten times at a distance of up to 50 yards. It’s much more difficult (for me) than Photography. It also occupies a huge amount of my time, but so does PhotoLab. Because of my lack of ability, it takes me longer to get to a point where I might stop editing, but after reading responses here, I realize I should have spent even more time.
What I do is very temporary, until the next photo comes along. What you are doing has to last decades, maybe even longer, so you really, REALLY want to get it perfect. There are only so many hours in the day, and the number of “free” hours seems to decrease every year. Sadly, some things “gotta go”.
Actually, “gloomy” isn’t the appropriate word, as 95% of the advice is quite helpful, more so than as it applies to any one instance. It applies to everything I do from then on. I think “frustrated” is a better word, as my goals are often so different from the way other people think. Why do we even do this stuff? I do it to make myself happy. Motorcycles did that for me, long ago. Ditto for building a model railroad empire. For various reasons, they are both now just distant memories. When it comes to cameras, I’m less likely to select a camera that is best “for the job”, than I am to select a camera that I enjoy using - which is why I paid Leica to fix a sensor problem on my old M8.2 camera - and at no extra charge they even replaced all the leather (vulcanite) on the camera. It looks and feels brand new now, and along with my M10, I get a lot more pleasure using them than I do from my technically superior D780. Oh, and as a guide to my future - the M10 is likely the last Leica I will ever buy. I like it more than the newer models.
I will try your ideas, but I think I’ll use one of my other images that doesn’t have the “burnt-out” effect. I first tried to make the image B&W, but gave up on that. I’m free tonight, so I will try.
I’m not sure what to think - in many ways, I enjoy your photo better than what I did, especially my “crop”, but the crop was done for a reason - I wanted to show “menacing”. If I wanted a photo to hang on my wall, I think I would prefer yours, as all the “extra” stuff I wanted in the image seems to “calm” the final result. I don’t like photos “divided in half” as I did when I took the photo, but my reasoning for that was to keep the camera level so the perspective wouldn’t be changed. That was the real reason, not “composition”. When I look at your view, I think the lower 20% could be cropped out. The boat being in the middle of the reflection on the water was deliberate.
Back to the drawing board…
I started with an earlier exposure, where the sun wasn’t so visible.
I’m not sure if I like the colors, so I went back to B&W.
After this, I’m going to go out with my camera, and try to find some “Miami Beach” scenes as @Joanna suggested long ago.
Fuji Acros 100, cropping changed, unable to darken the extreme bright area (not burnt out, but looks like it is), and since the camera wasn’t perfectly horizontal, I had to fix the perspective.
Here’s the original files:
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L1004653 | 2022-11-12.dng (26.6 MB)
Funny, when I go back to look at the color image I edited, I now have mixed emotions. When I look at the revised image, I just enjoy the strange cloud formation. It’s no longer “scary”, and I like it. The original is posted up above, if any of you want to try your hand at it. The building at the right could be brighter, but this way my eyes go right to the cloud. Everything else is just “fill”, to set the scene.
If I see something like this scene again, I’ll use my D780.
My wife and I often talk about our motorcycling days. Some of our happiest times together.
I think you are viewing your D780 all wrong. It is a tool to take pictures with the same as you’re Leica’s. The only difference is it has a larger viewfinder and a few more gizmos, otherwise no difference. The only thing I will suggest, when you go out with your D780 and that is to take out both your zoom lenses. The wide and telephoto zoom. Because you never know what picture is going to present itself i.e. less wasted pixels. There is still nothing to stop you from using whichever camera you wish, plus appropriate lenes.
A Touch of Ansel Adams. He liked adding drama and mystery to his pictures. Lovely.
Well, you’re right, they are both cameras and record an image when I push the button, but I don’t think most people have had much time using a RANGEFINDER camera, as opposed to a (D)SLR camera. For me, using each of them is very different than the other. Among other things:
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a (D)SLR shows the exact image you will capture.
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a RF camera does not
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a (D)SLR is usually boxy and noisy, with larger lenses
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an RF is smaller, much quieter, and less “obvious”
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a (D)SLR only shows the area being captured by the camera
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an RF camera also shows the surrounding area, things that might be moving into the scene
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a (D)SLR can be optical or digital, but it (only) shows the image you are capturing
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an RF is more like looking through a hole in a piece of paper - you see the “real” image you would see if your other eye is open
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a (D)SLR shows what the lens is seeing.
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an RF sees the image from higher up, and further to the left; you need to interpret this in your mind.
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To me, a (D)SLR is sort of like watching a live video
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To me, an RF is viewing the scene naturally, with my eyes
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a (D)SLR can zoom in or out, depending on the focal length
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an RF only shows what you see with your other eye, and with a long lens, the view gets very small.
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It is more difficult to take candid photos with a (D)SLR.
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RF cameras make this much easier
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Lots of opinions on different cameras on the internet - one page is:
I’m not saying one is better than the other, but RF cameras have mostly vanished, so RF lost the “popularity” race.
I like both. For me, the (D)SLR (the “D” is all that counts, for me) is what I would use if someone hired me to take photo of something. The rangefinder I find more enjoyable to use, for “fun” photography.
Of course, it is possible that from your perspective, you are completely correct, and there is no difference, especially so since the DSLR has obliterated the RF cameras, maybe in the same way that mirrorless is now obliterating the DSLR. I just have my old thoughts and ideas since I was a kid, and maybe while I’ve grown up for “work” photos, it’s that my heart is stuck on rangefinder cameras. I just spent $400 to fix up my antique Leica M8.2 camera, which I hardly ever use any more. Maybe “nostalgia” explains it, or maybe I’m not very smart or practical about these things. I “know” that the D780 is now my “best” camera, and I certainly enjoy it, but my “heart” is elsewhere - I guess I’m just trying to re-live what I’ve done since the 1950’s. Sorry for the too-long diversion.
Depending on where I’m going, and what I’m doing, I agree completely. I’ll get better results. But if I’m just going out for a walk, no specific types of pictures in mind, I prefer something small and light I can just wear over my shoulder. For my D780, that means my new 20mm, something around 50mm, and my new 300mm zoom. I went to the bagel shop yesterday, and wore my 780 with just my standard 50mm lens. (I never found anything that I felt was worth taking a picture of.). If I want more lenses for the D780, I need to take my gadget bag with me. If I want another lens for my Leica, I drop it into my pocket.
Ansel Adams - yes, I’m always thinking of his beautiful B&W photos. Between his books and videos, and Joanna’s comments on B&W, I’m constantly thinking of whether my photo would be better or worse in color or B&W. I think my brain is more wired for B&W.
If I wasn’t living in Miami, I’m sure I would still have motorcycles. They were a huge part of my life. Car drivers in Michigan were far less scary than the huge number of lousy drivers in Miami. In Michigan, a ten minute drive found me out in the country. In Miami, the “city” surroundings go on forever. I guess I’m still living in the past…
It is often the best place to live 
Yep.
I should add that my thoughts in my previous response were only that, “my thoughts”, and I expect that most people nowadays would think either I’m “nuts”, or perhaps I’m stuck in the past. Probably both.
If I was offered a choice of the very latest Honda motorcycle, or any of the Hondas I bought back in the 1970’s and 1980’s, I would prefer the older Honda. Not even close. It’s difficult for me and my memory to accept that this was almost half a century ago.
HOWEVER…
For PhotoLab, and trying to get the best possible images out of our cameras, newer is likely better. The newest Leica M11, that has 60 megapixels and a ton of innovations, is undoubtedly a “better” camera than my M10, but I don’t want 60 megapixel images. To me, 24 is far more than I need. There are still people who don’t want any of this, and prefer film.
I’d like to think that we now judge photos mainly on composition and timing, not on megapixels. The photos from “the masters” all came from currently obsolete cameras, but the images had something that is so difficult to describe. Several of you create beautiful images that are so enjoyable for me to look at. I almost always end up wondering “how did he or she do that???”
I love photos like this because I can explore them with my own eyes, and see so many things that add up to a very pleasing photograph. It wouldn’t work as well as it does, without the shadows.:
Enough of this. Back to work.
Sorry for the delay in replying @mikemyers but I have been watching the six Nations rugby. Today, there were two games and one of them being England against France. I’m afraid it was a bit embarrassing to watch as England lost 53 10.
Most rangefinder cameras have a frame within a frame. At least mine did. It was an Agfa super sillette rangefinder camera. It only had a fixed 50 mm 3.5 Tessa lens. I had that for about five years before I could afford my first reflex camera.
[quote=“mikemyers, post:1299, topic:29437”]
an RF is more like looking through a hole in a piece of paper - you see the “real” image you would see if your other eye is open
[/quote].
Sorry Mike. far as I’m concerned they are both real images. one is through the lenses of the viewfinder and the other is through the lenses of the viewfinder and the lens of the camera.
I cannot agree with that statement as candid photography was one of my favourite forms of photography and I never found it hard to accomplish what I tried.
The only reason I tried pushing you to use your D780 was so that you knew it as well as your Leica’s. Now that you have it set up as you want it and know it well. As far as I am now concerned. You can use whichever camera you want, as is your prerogative. I certainly will not complain.
The other thing I am enjoying is that you are now taking pictures for yourself and not that pesky editor as I called him, although you will still probably take publishable pictures at times.
I always put my camera around my neck. never over my shoulder. That way it is too easy to be relieved of your camera.
As far as motorbikes are concerned mine was a Triumph Tiger 110 of 1952 vintage.
I agree, but it feels different to me, looking straight ahead at my scene surrounded by frame lines. You’re right, a DSLR is very similar - it’s the mirrorless where I feel I’m looking at a television. Both are “real images”. …but it “feels” very different to me.
Candid photos - my DSLR is big and noisy, and attracts more attention.
With the Leica, there are “pairs” of frames, depending on which lens is attached. Sometimes I get confused as to which is which. I’m comfortable with both, but the D780 is usually “better”, especially for long lenses. (I can mount the Visoflex on top of my Leica, so it behaves like a DSLR, but I rarely do this. A real DSLR is better than the RF + Visoflex.
Sorry - I wasn’t clear enough - if my camera is on my right side, the strap is resting on my left shoulder. I prefer the camera on my side, not in front of me.
Thanks, that “pesky editor” is still there, but much more in the background. Something else in my mind is now trying to get a “creative viewpoint”. It’s up to me as to which one I listen to. Lately, it has been “creative”, not “reporter”.
One last thought on this - while the camera differences are real, I will happily use whatever camera is handy, including my iPhone. I’m so used to bouncing around, that it just take a few minutes usually to get re-acclimated. My Df is different that takes me a lot longer. I’ve also got an ancient S-120 pocket camera with a belt case.
It would be accurate to say that I enjoy some of them more than others, but the “best” camera I now own is the D780. In some ways, I wish I had a D850, but it wouldn’t make much of a difference in my resulting photos.
It’s raining outside, but the sun is shining. Strange. Tomorrow is supposed to be nice, and maybe I’ll go on my image hunt.
I was thinking about this earlier - how would you describe the difference (if any) between looking through an opening in the camera, frame lines added, or looking into the viewfinder of a DSLR?
Maybe there’s a difference between them that I missed, or maybe there is no difference. To me, there is a big difference, but maybe that’s just me, not the camera?
@mikemyers The thing I found with an RF camera was not the effect of the frame within the view finder. It was the inability to see all of what was in the image. I.e. any objects that I didn’t want in the image. Better view of a lamppost sticking out of somebody’s head ware with a reflex camera. It was a lot easier to see all of these things.
By the way. It’s nice to know that editor is well in the background now. also glad to know that you are enjoying your photography again.
P.S. will be watching the last of the six notions this week. In a moment.
Assuming that is a typo for six nations, after yesterday’s “le crunch” wipeout of England 53 - 10, what can one say but “Allez les bleus !!!”
Got to admit @Joanna. It was an embarrassment to watch. It’s the only rugby I watch nowadays, as I consider there is too much money in the club games that spoils them.
That’s part of why I don’t bother watching any sports, other than a little of the Olympics. The only part of the Super Bowl I paid attention to was the half time show, after which I went to sleep. I know nothing about soccer, or rugby, or tennis, or golf, beyond the very basics - sometimes.
That is the drawback, but on the positive side, you see thing before they even enter the frame. I too have captured trees growing out of someone’s head, that I wasn’t aware of.
Over all, I think the DSLR is best, once I consider all the comparisons. If I was recommending a camera to someone, it would be a DSLR (or maybe the Fuji X100 cameras, that offer the best of both RF and DSLR. …and if someone told me to “come quickly and bring your camera” it would be the D780.