Off-Topic - advice, experiences and examples, for images that will be processed in PhotoLab

And you could be right but… there is always the questions of the best lens for the job in hand.

If I had all the time in the world and a Sherpa to carry my back pack full of prime lenses then why not?

But, like you, I am getting older and can no longer carry a 15kg backpack with all the gear I might just need, maybe. So I have a few prime lenses, mainly for studio work and the occasional field trip when I know which focal length I will need in advance.

Apart from those times, I have my beautiful, flexible, friend, which, once the files have been passed through DxO’s lens corrections, are very difficult to tell apart from prime lenses.


Here is the blurb on the Nikon site bout AF-P lenses…

AF-P Lenses

The newer AF-P lenses let you set certain settings from the camera’s menu system, such as VR (Vibration Reduction) and the AF/MF mode. Older lenses have switches on the lens barrel for turning VR on and off, as well as switching between manual focus mode and AF mode.

Because the focus mode and VR are set using the camera menus, not every Nikon DSLR is compatible with AF-P lenses, and those that are may need to have their firmware updated so they’ll show the correct menu items.

So, what I get from the “latest and greatest” is the ability/necessity to go footling around in the menus just to change VR or AF mode. And you’re saying that that is an improvement over having a couple of easy to access switches on the lens?

Who’s talking about reverting? The 28-300mm was introduced in late 2010. Compare that with the age of my fixed focal lenses…

Lens Launch Date
AF-S Nikkor 20mm 1:1.8 G ED 2014
AF-S Nikkor 35mm 1:1.8 G 2014
AF Nikkor 50mm 1:1.8 D 2002
AF Nikkor 85mm 1:1.4 D 1995
AF Micro Nikkor 105mm 1:2.8 D 1990

If some of those older lenses are still producing stunning results, I don’t see why I would need to replace them, or the 28-300mm, unless the glass has suddenly wearing out.


I just checked and the 70-300mm lenses weigh around 500g but without a silent wave motor and around 750g with the SW motor, which is similar to the 28-300mm.

What new technology?

That’s fine and, as you can see from my kit list, it isn’t the only lens in my bag. I suppose the difference between us I don’t want to carry around a bag full of lenses that do almost the same job and which I might have to change in the field, risking dust on the sensor.

Most of the time, the only two lenses I use “in the field” are the 28-300mm and the 20mm - the rest hardly ever get used apart from in the studio.


Until the time it does matter. You used to say that you preferred the Leica over the Nikon because you felt the Nikon took away the control you had with the Leica. Now you are saying that you don’t really care about losing that control :woozy_face:

And it shows when you end up getting the wrong perspective, the wrong DoF and/or having to crop heavily in post, etc. I usually only ever have one lens, on the camera, and am able to grab anything from distant to wide angle to almost macro subjects with total control over perspective, DoF and framing, all at the point of taking the shot.

I am always certain that I have the right focal length for everything I come across, unless it is too far away for the 300mm, but with a 45Mpx image, cropping doesn’t have anywhere near the dire consequences as cropping a 24Mpx image.

Yes, you might get the odd serendipitous picture where everything works straight out of the camera but, if you are serious about wanting to leave journalism behind you and produce “art”, believe me, it needs a lot more planning.

Talking of which, I look forwards to your carefully planned shots of the Art Deco district.

So, how do you get that small distant subject without having to crop ¾ of the image, thus reducing the quality of the finished result? The answer is that you don’t.

Don’t forget @Prem’s advice on improving the framing.

Whoa! That was based on best guess of the distances involved. You really need to do some measuring on site and use something like TrueDOF-Pro to calculate the real numbers.

With everything else you have in the frame, as well as foreground, the subject is definitely not the water. In fact, I would regard the water as background. Once again, you are trying to include far too much in the image for what what you consider to be the principal subject.

The subject you have chosen really falls into the category of a “landscape”, where the whole image is the subject and you need to direct the viewer around, using compositional devices. Or, at least, that is how we make LF landscape images.

Or you can try reducing the DoF carefully to soften the trees as well as the rocks. Here is an image I made where I used the trees as a “frame”…

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/07/11/what-does-the-technology-in-nikons-new-af-p-70-300mm-f-4.5-5.6e-lens-mean
“The autofocus performance is faster, quieter and more accurate.”

“It can be confusing to keep track of all the different Nikon lens designations, but it’s important to understand the AF-P and E models in particular, as they are sure to be appearing in many upcoming Nikon lenses. As mentioned earlier, the new 70-300mm AF-P lens marks the first full-frame lens to employ the AF-P technology, so it will be very interesting to see which other full-frame lenses might utilize the stepping motor autofocus system. It is worth considering that not only is the new 70-300mm lens the first full-frame optic with AF-P, but it is also the longest lens (tied with the DX 70-300mm AF-P lens released earlier this year).”

I already bought it, new, at a good price (actually refurbished) direct from Nikon. Maybe I should take more photos with it to post here, so you can judge for yourself how good it is, or isn’t.

I understand it doesn’t fit your need of a “one lens does all”. That being the case, you are better off with what you use now.

Aha! So I should buy a M11 camera with 60 megapixel sensor?

(I’m not being serious here - I think 24 Mpx is far more than enough, for what I do - but if I got serious about making huge enlargements, I know I would feel very different about this. The new M11 is a fascinating camera, but not for me… They still have issues that are being sorted out. Anyway, Santa told me I already have too much stuff, and nothing new is on the way.)

Personally, I would enjoy this image more if you moved forwards a bit, and left out the “frame”. Beautiful boat, and beautiful reflection. Wow!!! That the trees are out of focus makes it even worse, but to me, they are just blocking my view. Did you take a photo without the trees? If so, please upload! To me, nothing in the image is “in focus”, or my eyes are tired…

I’m not sure how to respond. To me, control means taking what I see with my eyes, and capturing what I’m thinking as I take the photo. The camera should help me do that. So far, it seems to me that the most important function of ISO (beyond getting me a properly exposed image) is dynamic range. I must be missing something here, as I don’t know why I should be concerned with ISO for most of my photos. Aperture and shutter speed sound far more important to me. On the other hand, if I decide on a specific ISO, then shutter and/or aperture need to be changed accordingly. Please elaborate…

Added later:

  • Aperture is required to get me the depth of field I need.
  • Once that is done, I need a shutter speed fast enough to get a sharp image, and maybe allow some thing to be blurred, like moving water.
  • Once both of those are determined, ISO needs to be set to get me a good exposure.

Where am I going wrong?

Quick question - we are discussing how DxO Photolab is correcting issues in the lenses we are using. I assume that is the “optical corrections” that I leave turned on so all this is done before I start editing (if I’m using a supported lens).

Is there an easy way to compare the same image, with and without the DxO optical corrections?

More specifically, my Nikon 24-120 lens is supposed to have all sorts of issues which I assume DxO is now correcting. Can I get the “COMPARE” tool to show me the image with and without those corrections?

Second question, but does DxO Photolab allow us to create our own corrections for a non-supported lens, and save them for future use? If so, is there a write-up on how to do so?

By taking over control?

Tell me, when you were shooting film, did you let the camera store decide which film to sell you? :wink:

Agreed you could leave the ISO on auto but that could mean getting more noise than you would necessarily want, which could lose critical detail in shadows, etc.

As you know, I shoot Jazz concerts. I decide to use 10,000 ISO because I know from experience that much higher than that makes it difficult to get clean, detailed images. If I were to allow the camera to decide, it could choose 25,600 or more, which I know will make it very difficult to de-noise.

You might say you would limit the auto-ISO, but, if the is the case, you are effectively back to setting it manually, even though it might only be the upper limit. Why if you set the limit to 8,000 and the camera decided you really needed 16,000? What is going to happen? Will the camera force the speed or aperture, or will it simply under-expose the image?

Not forgetting that auto-ISO means that you can’t nail down a precise exposure, like for the highlights. When you reframe after metering, the ISO will change to a level for the centre of an image that you measured for the light in the corner.

The most important setting is usually aperture - at least if you want to control DoF. But a lot of folks are used to phone cameras with their infinite DoF and artificial Bokeh. A “real” camera allows you ultimate control over every aspect of your photography.

The D780 has everything you need to adjust within reach of your right finger and thumb…

  • change the speed - rear wheel
  • change the aperture - front wheel
  • change the ISO - press the ISO button with your finger and rotate the rear wheel.
  • focus - press the back button with your thumb

Once you know this, you can set the exposure via the viewfinder meter without your eye ever leaving the viewfinder. The aperture, speed and iso are all visible in the viewfinder, as is the rangefinder for checking critical focus.

By not being familiar with one camera and having to constantly recall what happens where and on which camera.

Apart from the Ebony, for high days and holidays, when I can be bothered to get back into film photography, I use one camera - the D850. I can use it almost without thinking in full manual mode with back button focusing.

When I go out, I judge the lighting conditions and adjust the ISO, checking what kind of shutter speeds I can get to avoid unwanted blur. Then I switch the camera off and start looking for or setting up subjects.

When I find something, the routine is…

  1. back button focus
  2. calculate and adjust aperture for desired DoF
  3. meter for the highlight and offset as necessary
  4. calculate the shutter speed to see if I can handhold or do I need a tripod to keep the ISO down
  5. frame the subject
  6. double-check everything
  7. press the shutter

Or, if I am shooting sport…

  1. set to aperture priority
  2. set aperture to f/10
  3. set to center-weighted exposure metering
  4. set to multi-point dynamic auto-focus
  5. check that shutter speed is fast enough for handholding
  6. point, follow and start shooting

from Interface – PhotoLab Guidelines


  • playing / experimenting with PhotoLab is a good way to get familiar with
    (doing instead of reading & forgetting)

I agree with Santa

1 Like

Mike, this screenshot is from Windows. Certain options are different for Mac

this is a screenshot from the manual, showing PC & MAC

Indeed, but it can be confusing determining which bar is which without any labels

well, reading can help :slight_smile:

Even more off-topic.

In 2011, 11/11/2011 to be precise, I think I took the best photo I have ever taken with this:

Screenshot 2022-12-26 at 08.01.04

https://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/compacts/panasonic_dmclx5

Compact camera, with Leica lens.

I re-edited my favorite image yesterday, and smiled.

Original:

.dop:
P1050741.jpg.dop (13.9 KB)

Finished:

No matter how much I buy, and how much I study, and how much I learn, I may never improve on this. (I was in a car, and we passed this ox-cart. I yelled out STOP!!!, walked behind my car, and waited for what I thought was the perfect moment. Afterwards, I had a huge smile on my face.)

I know I had a huge amount yet to learn, and I certainly still enjoy photography, but I don’t want to lose the sheer joy of photography. Technique, and good gear, and now good software are SO helpful, but there’s something much more basic that is needed, the things that put a smile on my face and leave me feeling so excited/thrilled/pleased/satisfied/happy/lucky. That’s what I felt back when I was a young kid.

I’ll reply to the posts up above after making breakfast. And thank all of you for all the help and feedback and information and explanations. I may never catch up with all of you, but I’m very much enjoying the journey. Looking forward to 2023, and wish you all Happy New Year!

More than likely. It’s a great photojournalistic record shot, which you seem to be addicted to :wink:

But, art it isn’t :laughing:

Happy New Year

Ooh! @Joanna you are a hard task master. :grinning: @Mike. I’ll give you that one even though as @Joanna has said. It’s a great photojournalistic record shot. To me, it is a record of somewhere that you have been and possibly you would hang on a wall to keep reminding you of that place.

2 Likes

Well, there is a bit more to the story.

What you have seen from your older lenses might be good enough to please you now, you might be pleasantly surprised to see what more modern lens designs might do with the D850 if it were possible to adapt them to it (they can’t, unfortunately).

The camera and lens companies say that the shorter lens-to-sensor distance of mirrorless vs DSLR designs, plus the larger diameter lens barrels allowed by redesigned (bigger) lens mounts, makes lenses very much easier to design and optimize. That means better sharpness, less coma, and fewer aberrations for the same or less design effort and manufacturing cost. All good, right? Throw in VR to make hand-held photos even sharper and it gets even better.

And… even better lenses will be needed in the future. The megapixel race has given us incredibly good sensors in terms of definition and dynamic range, and that coupled with sharper lenses has pushed the quality of small format photography so high that I’ll wager that the output quality of small format now matches or exceeds that from the 6x7cm cameras of the film era. And the quality will relentlessly keep getting better and better until the theoretical limits are approached as they have been with current microprocessor technology.

Watch out @Joanna, your big Ebony is going to be even more obsolete before too much longer!

Regardless of the label, I’m happy. Is it a photojournalistic shot? How about the one from HCB? Does it matter?

The point of posting it here, regardless of what kind of photo it is, was to show that I don’t need the very latest high-tech photo gear - that small Lumix was all I needed. By the way, it wasn’t any “place” in particular - we were driving across India to the west coast, going to Ft. Kochi, and passed this ox-cart on the way. I saw it as a great opportunity to get a photo I might love. My eyes are usually “open”, looking for scenes begging to be captured with a camera.

I’ll never be an HCB, but I can do my best, learning how to improve at the same time.

I’m quite used to the D780 and M10, both of which are being used in (M)anual mode, and neither of which has auto-iso turned on. The Df is quite different, and always takes me a few minutes to re-learn. Why do I enjoy shooting with it? Because I enjoy it:
https://ricksreviews.org/blog/2022/03/13/nikon-df-review/
I have put it away as of yesterday, and probably will leave it alone for a long time.

That leaves two cameras, one of which I love (M10) and one of which is perfect (D780). The M10 has the aperture on the front, the ISO on top, the shutter speed (also on top), and has an indicator in the viewfinder if my exposure seems reasonable to me.

You feel so strongly about it that I’ll leave auto-iso turned off. Most of the time, ISO will most likely be at 100 or 400, and ignored unless necessary. Aperture will be set for depth of field. Shutter will be set for a range for what I feel is appropriate, and adjusted if necessary to get a proper exposure (unless I change the ISO first).

I mostly use either the DSLR or the rangefinder - with DSLR everything is as you say, and with the rangefinder, the lens is set on the aperture ring, and focus is manual. For distance photos, I don’t use the rangefinder, if for no other reason than I don’t have long lenses for it. Still, on special occasions, I might well use one of the other cameras. My M8.2 is the only camera I own that can shoot in infrared, and I’ve got an itch to shoot film every so often. I haven’t done so in a year, but I still want to…

Very confusing, and it’s not important really. It is what it is. I don’t see distortion in my images, and mostly use better lenses. The 24-120 I’m curious about, but again, it is what it is. PhotoLab takes care of it for most of the lenses I’m likely to use on my Nikon, and most of my lenses for my Leica are prime lenses, and are mostly free of distortion.

No, I bought a 50’ or 100’ roll of Kodak Plus-X and loaded my own cassettes. I rarely used anything else. For color, I don’t remember there being many choices, and the choice was usually Kodachrome or Ektachrome. The only times I did something different were when I wanted minima grain or very high speed, but that was pretty rare. I mostly stuck with my bulk film and loaded my own cassettes.

I don’t picture much of a difference in grain between 100, 200, 400, and 1,000, maybe not enough to worry about when our new cameras can go to 5,000, 10,000, 20,000, and so on using PhotoLab to control the grain at the higher speeds. Now that I’ve learned about “dynamic range”, that changes everything and there is a lot more to think about. If I was going to make a huge enlargement, then maybe I would need to consider this more carefully.

I know you’re right, but I can’t see any physical differences in images exposed at 100 or 500 ISO. I guess with my old cameras, that would have been a LOT more important.

Thanks - I guess I’m out of luck with my old lenses, or at least the ones that need big corrections. I wonder why they don’t - many people might find that very useful.

1 Like