New JXL JPEG file format

This looks promising and I’m wondering if DXO has it on the radar.

Interesting. Most of the touted benefits are also present in HEIC, but the interchangeability with the existing JPEG standard is a significant difference. The question is whether that is enough of a difference. Because Apple have introduced HEIC into something like a billion devices and it doesn’t seem to be gaining traction outside of that sphere, so I’m not sure anything can shift JPEG. Especially given it still solves the problem for a huge majority of use cases.

I think that’s because HEIC is not completely royalty-free and not backwards-compatible. JXL is both and it supports both lossy and lossless compression. Google and Facebook and other heavy hitters have expressed support for JXL.

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Interesting,
would this be the answer to the 4k 8k age? (yes that’s resolution mostly but with this technology is also AdobeRGB viewing capability and maybe 12bits colordepth or higher to support in future as standard. Because more pixeldetail ask for more color nuance too.)
By the way think of the network pressure as in Mbps. al those big files due bigger resolutionstreams and bigger image files to bennefit this technology. Hate to life in a area where you get 10Mpbs up/down max… :thinking:
All screens which Jpeg is “build” for in the first place are 8bits colordepth. 12bit colordepth viewers are rare for most people today right?
So using a JpegXL as storage now wil always cause a conversion to 8bits conventional Jpeg when called for viewing on a screen.
But a quick read on the site shows a highly compressed “16bit tiff” like data container with even unconventional ratio’s as 360 degrees.
If this could be a new standard for digital viewing it should be embraced by all big photo processor applications to succeed.

Apparently JPEG XL is royalty free so there is no reason for DxO not to jump onboard once JPEG XL acquires sufficient traction. Sufficient traction could be just around the corner or in three years. For those who would shout why not?, I suggest opening GraphicConverter and reading about the two hundred and seventy nine image formats Graphic Converter supports. Even without royalties, it costs engineering hours and creates visual clutter to support another image format.

Once a program does add support for a file format, it’s more or less condemned to support that format forever, or risk a wave of negative PR from even a small group of angry users when the publisher drops support.

If I have this figured out right that might be less of an issue in this case since JXL is backwards-compatible. To lose support for it in DXO will just mean you can no longer export to it from the RAW.

It seems like compatibility is a big attraction here. As things stand, web services such as Facebook and its subsidiaries convert other formats such as HEIC to jpeg in order to serve them. This will no longer be necessary in the case of JXL since the file format can contain such a big range and size of data and it may serve up only what it needs. So if you upload a 16bit JXL to Facebook it will only serve up 8bits of the file … if I understand it correctly! I don’t know how it works but I have read that Google and Facebook are saying this format will save in storage and bandwidth.

Google have cancelled and refactored and uncancelled and migrated and deprecated so many services and formats that following Google’s lead would be suicidal for smaller development houses. Alphabet gets away with it as the online advertising space is so enormously profitable to them, Google can afford to make many, many false steps and waste hundreds of millions on failed directions.

@uncoy @Beachscriber
I think the biggest problem these days is commercial bennefit does make the choice (and not technological bennefit) for the big whales.
Google, Facebook.
i bought a good 2K screen (2560x1440) instead of a 4K one for my work on images and general use.
my 16Mp camera produces 4608x3464 4:3 ratio which is close to native 4096 × 2160 ([DCI] 4K) (16:9 ratio) (4K means bigger screen and closer watch distance to bennefit the extra pixels so much higher cost for a good screen)
And reading this:

Which would be for the general consumers of “real” camera’s (yes the ILC’s m43 aps-C FF not smartphone’s :sweat_smile:) the place to watch there proccessed files.
Smartphone users just upload to there facebook or instagram or God knows what we have now as standard, and be done with it.
So the tech is out there, HDR 12b4K REC 2020 color (new colorspace profile to replace the good old sRGB standard.) As long as there isn’t a flood of content to use for viewing those extra’s, only the one’s who want to be the first adapters will buy this. and commercial bennefit is bount to the mass.
So i don’t think DxOPL should be one of the first adapters and risk to be taken the wrong turn in this choice. Still i hope my new smart TV is one of those 12bHDR4K screens :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

If I understand JXL correctly, the commercial benefit for the likes of Facebook and Google will be felt by less storage and lower bandwidth needs. It has that potential for greater bit depth and bigger files but for ordinary use it’s quicker and smaller.

HEIC is basically an image format hacked from a video format. It is not optimized for still frames. In fact the largest resolution supported in the frame coding is 8k. While hidden from the user frames larger than 8k are coded as multiple frames in the same image and there can be artifacts at the frame boundaries.

As I understand kt JPG-XL is an image format through and through with support for high bit depth (higher than HEIC) and terapixel images.

The other thing is the reference encoder/decoder is royalty free, open source, and freely available. Presumably it would just need to be integrated into DXO…. Not saying it’s super easy… but much of the hard parts are done already.

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For a software developer, no feature if free. Some, like this one, are relatively low-cost (unlike adding the patent and royalty nightmare of HEIC, at least for commercial software). On the other hand, there are occasionally feature requests which are free and important to to which DxO just can’t get around: Add ‘Deselect All’ Filtering option in Image Browser. The inability to deselect all filters in the image browser has been plaguing DxO Photolab users since at least Photolab 2.

Adding a simple ‘Deselect All’ option would be:

  1. extremely easy
  2. beneficial to all Photolab users

Instead of DxO are holding us hostage to a new and “reimagined” image browser to add basic functionality. Support for additional experimental file formats does have a real coding support cost and questionable benefits. I’d prefer DxO took the easy wins first.

If JXL flourishes, by all means though. Sounds like a good idea.

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Let’s get HEIC working first so that we can process years-old iPhone captures.

Haha, I can totally relate to you using this thread as an excuse to mention that totally brain-frying frustration! I agree with that one. It is so thoughtless. My main one is how frustrating it is to make subtle adjustments to warmth and hue on a control point! I’d trade having that fixed for having JXL support any day.

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HEIC is a bigger problem than JXL as there are enormous royalty payments, slanted in favour of multinationals like Apple (i.e. high per unit fees, but with a large but flat maximum payment). I’ve personally tested processing HEIC photos vs processing JPG conversions from HEIC. There was no difference in quality. HEIC has technical potential but current iPhones are not using that potential. Resurrecting support for the conversion of iPhone DNG on the other hand would make a huge difference.

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