Hi;
I’m somehow confused how Control points work in DxO. I couldn’t find Radial filter in DxO so I was trying to use Control point.
First I thought it works like ‘Radial filter tool’ in my other RAW converter. But I don’t think they are working the same or I just don’t know how to use them properly.
Here is the thing;
I wan’t to increase exposure only in the center of the image (1/4 of the image in the center). I only want to lift exposure of that part of the image.
With my other RAW converter I make ‘Radial filter tool’ and increase exposure and I get the result I want.
But when I place Control point on that area in DxO and increase exposure weird things starts to happen. I discovered that it depends WHERE on the image I put the point. Sometimes it looks like Control point only lift shadows but if I move Control point a few milimeters to the right that changes the result and if I move the Control point again a few milimeters to the right I again get different results without moving exposure slider - like I could change effect only by moving control point arround the image.
It looks like (hard to explain) when I’m moving Control point it looks like I’m walking arround my subject and lighten it with a torch from different angles.
@Pieloe made a lot of effort to explain the tool in his manual.
its a color selector. Edit: Use (toggle on of) “m” (windows10) to see the mask layer in black and white.
not a gradient mask.
Sorry; I was reading an explanation of behaviour of Control points. It calculates contrast, colors and similar. I must say I don’t understand but I will dive deep into it.
I can’t watch video at the moment. I will when I get home.
So how do I control behaviour of Control point if I want to only increase exposure in part of the image - like I can do that with Radial filter.
And second question:
Control point has Exposure slider so apparently this slider is there to control exposure. How is this connected to colors?
Best way is first place your controlpoint to the spot you like, then switch to maskingmode, the black and white screen, black is not effected and white is most effected. Move the “eye” , it looks like a eye, with a iris and a pupil, that way that the pupil is on the exact color/place you like to change.
Then switch back to normal screen and desaturate 100% you see by part of you image turning grey how much it effects the parts in the image. (i did a example in the tutorial section)
One example there are more.
Note the circle is not a border its a effectarea increse decrese, if you don’t want a piece not be effected use negative controlpoint to block the effect.
Thanks for the answer Pascal and yes;
I’m aware DxO is not 'ersatz’ (German; translation=replacement) for ‘my other converters’. Hmmm; should I be worried? What if I’m looking for a replacement?
It has different logic. Who can say if this is good or bad and how other photographers who are looking for alternative RAW converters (or replacements) accept this ‘‘new’’ logic. But this is not the question for this thread.
At the moment I’m NOT looking for the answer WHY DxO logic is different but more HOW different it is and how this ‘‘new’’ logic affects my workflow. Can I get the results I want with DxO? Can I get them so easily and in the same time as with other RAW converters?
I won’t find the answer to this question till I fully understand how DxO tools work.
OK; back to Control points.
Thanks Peter. I just finished reading your answer and this made things somehow more clear but I still need to play more to see, how this fits in my workflow and how can I benefit from Control points.
I must admit I don’t understand why Control points work that way but perhaps there is a good reason and I just don’t see it at the moment with my limited knowledge.
However; I would still like to have Radial filter in Local adjustments and I would use it.
Conclusion:
I think I got my answer regarding Control points. Now I need to use them more in my developing workflow to get familiar with them.
As I understand: place Control point; click on M to see B&W mask; move Control point arround and then click on M to close B&W mask and see the results.
Ive placed a lot of my fiddles with masks and upoint/controlpoint searching for how to use and how can i use them in my benefit.
Use search tool(that icon right upper corner next of your avatar and the three bars) type " controlpoints" and i see my avatar a lot popping up.
Lot of info is scathered around inthere.
Back to your summary,
1 select with one or more controlpoints (you can group them) the objects and colors you want to influence
2 use “m” mask to replace points or resize the influence circle around the points or place new controlpoints to increse the “white” area. You can use also two or more groups for a more feathered effect.
3 use the sliders in max settings to see the effects more clear, i use saturation, blacks and exposure. This allows you to see you effect area.
4 start to work that area as you like.
5 use other masks , erasor and gradiant filter to blend your work in.
There are lots of video’s about this, (nikcollections) is som what different in controls but the image effects are the same.
I have learned that local adjustments is very powerfull in color, exposure, sharpening saturation desaturation. Facial skin inprovement. Most of this i have posted here for fun and learning…
Do some reading and digging here in the forum and you will pickup some new skills.
Well; now I finally see, how Control points work. First I was thinking this is somehow a replacement for Radial filter so I was trying to use it as Radial filter and got confused with the results I got.
You can also control where you do NOT want the affect of a Control Point to be applied by holding down the Alt key (on Windows) as you apply a Control Point … Experiment with this in “mask mode” (press the ‘M’ key) to get an understanding of how it works.
The biggest power in this matter is the easy blending of global and local adjustments on equal grounds.
There isn’t a special order in applying.
Stil i am always start with exposure comp and smartlighting then selective tone/contrast.
From there i start to “see” where the local things are needed.
Smartmask or masking or controlpoint or … Erasor brushes to feather effects .
You can use them around eachother or on top of each other use one for color an other for exposure kind of things and an other for sharpening. Wile blending all in due cross over settings.
And in the localtool in the pallete you can use opacity slider to adjust the effect of a mask or the list of mask’s.
And don’t forget HSL.
An other tool with great posibility’s.
Like all tools you need to learn the tools trade and master the use.
But, John, you know this already so why do i respond to you?
I understand that control points are not a replacement for radial filters (I still have to understand exactly how it works as I feel it a bit too unpredictable to my taste - maybe I should try them more.).
I’ll watch the video to see if I can understand more how it works.
However, two comments:
you can’t say that a brush is a replacement for radial filter, it’s not the same at all. You can’t change the position, form, and progressiveness afterwards with a brush. It’s just a complete different tool.
radial filters are not only lightroom… there were existing before in other software (some with better implementation) and as always been useful.
Yes it’s true, a brush is not a replacement for radial filter
I wrote “You can replace it by the brush” to approach the effect because this tool do not exist in PL.
Control point is other thing.
Yes it’s true, radial filters are not only lightroom
I wrote this to users who hope to found the same behavior (generaly Lr) never reading the user manual
Hi,
A radial filter in a circle form can be simulated by grouping the excisting radialfilter in LA pointing the feathering in angles, much like a apertureblade group. 7blades or 9 blades give a different bokeh.
And LA is given you a easy way to create groups and list them in local adjustment palette.
About the controlpoint, the strongpoint of this tool is the non circulair selecting driven by color selecting not only position.
I advise you to select some images and maniplulate those differently by global tools, masks, controlpoint. Just play around see the different behaviours and outcomes so you get a predictionfeeling which tool type would help to solve your issue. It’s non destructive so use a master and some virtual copy’s to playaround before actual serious adjustment on the master.
If you create a virtual copy the then applied adjustments are copied to so you can go wild on experimenting and then delete vc and start on the master again.
Thanks for your answer Pieloe.
Your tutorial is very helpful as always.
I’ll try to experiment but it will take time as I don’t find the behaviour very intuitive.
I never liked u points in nik software in the past - I’m talking about years ago even before lightroom existed
I am way a lot more at ease with simple tools with predictable behaviour.
But I’ll try to understand how I can predict the effect studying the masks with the m key.
Generally speaking, I tend to be careful with automasking tools as sometimes you think it’s ok but if you zoom in you find out that there are edge effects and so on.
I don’t know if it can happen with control points.
Yes; we all understand DxO is not like Lightroom. It has different tools and different logic.
At the moment we have in Local adjustments: Control point, Brush,Graduated filter, Eraser and Auto select.
None of those tools are direct replacement for Radial filter. We can improvise but…
So; how much harm can we do to DxO Photolab if we add Radial filter to Local adjustments?
I personally find Radial filter very usefull. It’s basically Graduated filter with different shape.
horizon was “off” and wile i fixed that i decided to boost the sky blue, note the shadow cast in the sand, blueisch, i wanted that to keep.
i lifed the shadow in the treeline with smartlighting (human eye sees it more like this) .
And then i controlpointed the sky “white” wile actived “M” then ALT-clicked the ground “black”
But some of the sun warmed does reached the landscape in it’s saturation making the sunstreak more visible:(because i clicked a controlpoint on the yellow sky around the sun(deteled it later to minimise the polution saturation look), so it picked up not only “blue” but also the “sun yellow”.
I needed more time to screen dump this and write it down then the corrections.
You can’t do this with radial filters!
The micro control on color and places is even with “one” controlpoint-group and thus one adjusting menu action very effective. And if you want to alter a setting it is much easier to adjust a influence in a sector of the image.
(oh and i noticed the blue blob in the right corner, so i moved the original controlpoint a bit to the left, deleted the most right group controlpoint.)
