DxO PhotoLab and camera viewfinders

I don’t trust the (camera)histogram to really show all clipped highlights. In some of the bigger histograms of apps I can see tiny highlights on the right side when the camera showed a flat line. There’s only so much detail which a tiny on-screen histogram of camera can show. I rely on what I see and try to judge (=guess) if there’s enough details in the sky.

There’s usually also a metering mode which tries to make sure the highlights get enough details. Alas, using this mode inside a room gives you details of light bulbs and rather dark faces. So again, better to learn to judge or guess for yourself than relying on a camera brain.

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If you really want to see what’s going on, you need a UniWB setting. UniWB settings will display greenish ooc jpegs, but they also show a RGB histogram (if the camera can do display a RGB histogram) that corresponds to sensor output under all lighting conditions.

Example
Shot taken with UniWB setting (note the clipped area on the house wall)

When I set DPL to WB = Daylight, the warning goes away…

Nevertheless, the house wall is clipped, as can be seen in Fast Raw Viewer

Never trust the histogram, unless you know what it’s actual source and viewing conditions are. :nerd_face:

Hmmm. I think I’ll stick to KISS (keep it simple stupid)

I never even look at the histogram on the camera. Occasionally, but very rarely, I will look at the blinkies for an extreme HDR shot, but not taking too much notice of them.

I still believe that going through a test procedure to establish the DR of your camera and then using the results when spot metering is by far the best way to get reliable exposures.

Well, it works for colour LF transparency film and, with it costing more than €10 per sheet before processing, you really can’t afford to get it wrong. If I can reliably get good exposures with the 5 stop dynamic range of Fuji Velvia 100, how come so many people can’t get a good exposure with Digital cameras with over 13 stops of range?

Testing a camera before relying on it (as far as exposure measurement and DR go) is certainly a good idea. Same for spot measuring the brightest part that should display properly. Nevertheless, not all cameras can measure a spot, and then, something like UniWB can work really well.

You’ve adapted your procedure to technology that is both limited (5 stops) and expensive, getting the shot right is quite reasonable. Shots are cheap on a digital camera though and bracketing 5 shots will not cost 50 Euros…why worry then? Also, not all subjects allow a 15 minute setup. Still, learning how to shoot properly makes sense - and is easy if you concentrate on one camera or two.

Basic point is if you use zebra warnings to avoid overexposed shots you under expose almost every image.
(i tried for one day and all white flowers or sun blinks where not white but greyisch.)
I use intelligent dyn function, as lazy correction, max -1stop down after it lowers contrast which i don’t care about because contrast is for oocjpeg not for raw.

Then i look at histogram and make a gues voor EVC to raise some like 2/3stop if i need it. Risk of upper white blown but my main concern is the subject or main interest not “no blown highlights at all.”.
And i allway’s take a shot at evc0 and the manual version so i can choose afterwards which is best. :wink:

I guess I just have this thing of getting the RAW file as right as possible without having to, effectively, shoot a video and choose the best shot.

Sure, but when those kind of subjects are possible, I can still let aperture priority take over, with the occasional tweak of the exposure compensation dial.

And that’s what I like about my Nikon. It has a wealth of flexibility for those special shots and it only takes a quick flick into aperture priority to turn back into a “snapper’s” camera.

from the D750’s manual

Exposure Preview
pdf p.90 / print p.62

  • how to superimpose a histogram in LiveView mode
    pdf p.92 / print p.64

→ " … Note that the preview may not accurately reflect the final results when … "

Photo Information
pdf-version p.274 / print-version p.246

  • how to check for Highlights
    pdf p.276, 277 / print p.248, 249

= helpful with repeatable / static subjects → read out from (embedded) jpeg’s


→ Setting the cam to AdobeRGB and turning picture style, sharpening etc off (flat)
helps the jpeg histogram to be closer to what you might get from the raw file.

→ Set ISO accordingly when to capture maximum dynamic range.

→ ‘Flick’ your D750 between → matrix, → center → spot weighted metering
( pdf p.167, 168 / print p.139, 140 ).

→ Combine back-button AF-ON + shutter-release AE-L
( pdf p.167-170 + 389, 390 / print p.139-142 + 361, 362)
( custom menu c1 = ON + f4 = Press AF-ON … )

→ Make use of My Menu …


… and nothing has to do with PhotoLab, but your cam.

I enjoy thinking about the Z, but I have no plans to put my name on any waiting list. In addition to everything you wrote, it is WAY too big, and WAY too heavy, not at all what I want to walk around with!!!

I was thinking of how I look at the viewfinder, which right now is optical, and with the Z, it will change to digital. Beyond that, yeah, everything seems to be digital…

Some of this I think I’ve done - will check it out when I get home.

If Joanna does’t think I should “bracket”, I won’t.

I don’t exactly trust the histogram and blinkies on my Leica, but it seems like a nice guide to keep my reasonably close, as that’s what I’ve been doing for the past week or so.

@platypus I am curious to know what is hiding in your yours “Exif Editor” end “Keywords” palettes, you can drop down them :grinning:

No magic: I used a flat “all-in” workspace and arranged tool panels into either the left or right dock palettes. The Exif and Keywords tools are the ones that are usually located in the “Metadata” palette of DxO Standard and Advanced workspaces.

It was in case a v5 was hidden behind these pallets,I tried :joy:

(I am completely lost as to what you are both talking about…)

Franky was asking what was hiding behind the exif and keyword “palettes” were.

Mike, If we go back a few weeks, we exchanged posts about workspaces and I sent you my “All-In” workspace setting, which has only two palettes containing a bunch of tools each. The palette situated left of the preview is called “Left Dock” and contains the Exif and Keyword tools provided by DxO.

→ No mystery, nothing hidden, just a personal workspace setup with plain tools provided by DxO.

Aha! Understood.

Speaking of Workspaces, I now need to copy my Workspace on my Mac Mini computer to my MacBook Pro laptop.

My current Workspace is based on your All-In" workspace setting, but it has grown a little. I need to fine-tune it when I get time.

Thanks to you, and Joanna, and others, my Workspace now matches “me” quite well. I still need to pay attention to the Profile I select when I start PL4.

Maybe I can ask right here - this is what I now see for “Presets”, and the ones I created after #5 were created so long ago I don’t remember what I was doing, or why.

Screen Shot 2021-10-17 at 11.35.53

What I think I’ve been learning here over the past few months is for me really to have one Preset (#2 DxO Optical Corrections only) PROVIDED that I turn off lens recognition on my Leica when shooting with “unknown” lenses. PL4 will never see incorrect information for the lens my camera lied about, because I forgot to turn lens recognition on/off as needed. Then, if I turn on the functions I usually use, such as watermarking, I will save that Preset as perhaps “Mike Cameras”, so PL4 will make any and all camera adjustment corrections, and only make lens corrections when it “knows” which lens I was using.

(…and I better make sure that if use any lens that is unknown to PL4, I turn off lens detection on my Leica, and make sure that my non-Leica lenses on my Nikon are identified correctly, and if not, turn off that correction in PL4.)

Hi Mike, you could create your own default presets and call them “Mike Standard with lens” and “Mike Standard without lens” and use No Correction as default.

Normally, PhotoLab will switch tools to a different mode when it encounters an unsupported lens. Set your Leica to not write any lens info if possible.

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Thanks, I think I’ve accomplished that. There is a setting for lens selection, and I’ve turned it OFF. When I use one of my Leica lenses, I’ll turn it back on (if I remember). Because I’m using non-coded lenses, I have to do it manually, and for Voigtlander there is no information to be found, so I de-activate it.

Presets - yes, I am doing that. Any time I open a new image, I’ll confirm that PL4 is using the one I want it to use.

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Bull pucky. The Z6, Z50 are both great (use them regularly). Z6 II/Z7 II and Z fc are also apparently wonderful. Nikon’s D4, D4S, D5, D750, D810, D850 are also all great cameras. The 1.8G lens line is also excellent and affordable. The Z 1.8 lenses are fabulous and (relatively) affordable in comparison to Canon RF lenses or even Sony lenses (Sony nails the photographer on the telephotos). The Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 FE is the best standard zoom ever made for DSLR (apparently the latest Z and RF lenses just squeak past it by a hair).

Except where noted, I’m writing only about gear with which I’ve actually shot above. Can compare it to the parallel Canon gear (with which I also shot before moving to Nikon). Fortunately Mike has his own very positive experience with the D750 to allow him to evaluate your comment for what it’s worth.

You are both right. I bought a D2h from the first batch of cameras to arrive at B&H Photo. It died shortly after I received it. I sent the camera only back to Nikon, as instructed, and they sent me another. Same situation, same process. On the third go-round they sent me an updated verision of the camera - maybe D2hs?, and it died. I called Michael Ansett at Nikon, and asked them to send me an in-house D2x that they had been using for a while. It lasted for a long time, although it used up batteries quickly. But thanks to all the send/receive stuff, by then I had many batteries and many chargers. Stupidly, not having learned my lesson, I got a D3 very shortly after it was released, but this time it was great. If I hadn’t stopped taking race photographs for $$$, I’d probably have a D4, or 5, or 6 , or ?? by now, but I went to B&H and checked all the current cameras - D800 (too heavy, and big, D750 (perfect) and Df that I fell in love with, but the D750 was technically better in my mind. Later, I bought the Df anyway, as I just wanted to have one.

The D750 has been as good to me as any camera I’ve ever owned, sort of like the Fuji X100 series. Never any issue, although now, if I put it away for storage, sometimes it takes one shot to get it to wake up and work properly. Once that happens though (if indeed it ever does happen again) I’m back in business. I like it, and it likes me.

I’m not yet ready to go for a Nikon Z, even the Z9. If I had unlimited funds, I’d probably buy a D850 like Joanna’s. Why not have “the best”?

I have no idea if this is really valid for Nikon, but for Leica it’s a big thing, with lots of action in the L-camera forum. I don’t get it - I thought the best and sharpest and most technically lens that one could buy would be idea, but there are a lot of people in that forum who love the “effects” of using old glass. For that matter, there are a lot of people there who prefer film. When I get some time, I will go to that discussion and look for some “comparison” photos, and try to understand why these people feel that way. As for me, all my Leica glass is “older”; I can’t afford the new stuff, but for around 1/10th the cost, I bought an equivalent Voigtlander lens. Oh, and Leica lenses grew bigger and heavier - but the rumor is that when the M11 comes out, Leica will be releasing smaller and lighter lenses, like they used to.

I’ve got dozens of old Nikon glass, even lenses for my rangefinder SP. I mostly prefer the newer lenses, for lots of reasons - smaller, lighter, faster focus (built-in motor), and most times better optics. I tried Canon - no interest. I’ve never used a Sony yet, so no comment. Fuji makes awesome cameras and lenses, but the ones I like most are not full-frame. Oh, and back to Nikons, for when it’s needed, the D750 includes a flash on top. Sometimes having it has been very handy.

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I like both. We spend our money and time on software like FilmPack and Silver Efex, contriving the effects of old glass, when all we have to do is put the original old glass on our cameras. Yes, there is something different about both the process and the result. The old glass has a certain grain. Most vintage Leica glass (vintage in this case refers to anything from before 2000 and manual focus) offers beautiful neutral colours leaning to blue with good reds. Some of the older glass has a strong yellow tint (including some of the Olympus Zuiko OM classics, depends on which generation). Of course one can white balance a lens but the colours in the glass itself will always make themselves felt. Much Sigma glass over the years has leaned yellow and brown – it’s hard to get the poo tint out. Recent Sigma glass is much less yellow (I have a 135mm f1.8 Art which I use for night games which I’d be reluctant to give up). Canon glass is similarly grey/neutral/blue like Leica as is modern Nikon glass. I don’t have enough vintage Nikon glass to be able to draw any conclusions. My vintage collection was originally built to shoot on Canons with Canon/Leica/Olympus/Minolta focus direction.

Personally I usually turn most lens correction off including in PhotoLab. I like natural vignette, slight geometric aberration. Absolutely geometric rendering with perfect corners can get hospital sterile after awhile. Of course there are times where that sterile perfect neutrality is just what one wants.

If you are regularly shooting Nikon with Leica, I don’t recommend starting to manual focus on the Nikon as the focus directions are the opposite. It will make you slow as you won’t be certain which direction in which to turn for manual focus. With my Nikon gear I have to stick to autofocus as the Canon/Leica manual focus direction is ingrained in my reflexes (and I don’t feel like rebuilding my vintage glass collection either). I managed to reverse my reflexes on the zoom finally (after over a year).

Lots of opinions, and examples, here:
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/268173-the-view-through-older-glass/
I think it’s even longer than our recent discussions here on the PL forum!