The problem is Photolab Elite isn’t a complete package. Elite + Viewpoint + FilmPack is the complete package.
I had always assumed that Photolab was the “Hero” product for DXO but I now wonder whether the plugins are actually the main income generators? The market for plugins with all the Adobe users is far larger than the high end raw processor market. If so DXO’s development/marketing makes more sense.
There’s nothing wrong with having different editions with different features. But… the messaging on these needs to be very, very clear. Usually by providing a clear feature list in a prominent place on the web site with ticks marking which features are in which version.
At the moment, it seems like there are 3 editions: Essential, Elite, and ViewPoint.
It is my belief that FilmPack is fine as a standalone tool. Even though I want some of those sliders in PhotoLab, all the film looks and history and the like I don’t think have a place in any PhotoLab edition.
It is also my belief that ViewPoint doesn’t warrant a standalone product and it should be integrated within PhotoLab only.
If I were in charge, I would have the following:
- PhotoLab – the current PhotoLab Essential. The “Essential” word is a little ambiguous in my view.
- PhotoLab Pro – the current PhotoLab Elite with ViewPoint and a few of the FilmPack sliders (fine contrast and creative vignetting, at least)
- PhotoLab Extra – PhotoLab Pro, plus FilmPack as an extra.
Combined with a solid investment in the basics, to ensure that the core product has all the ‘essential’ features (robust DAM included) working consistently (no cross-platform gotchas) and reliably, I think this would stand PhotoLab in good stead for the future. As things are now, I have this feeling that many people buy PhotoLab primarily because of DeepPRIME and then make do with the rest of the tools.
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I am not aware of any Viewpoint edition of PhotoLab. As far as I know there are only two editions, Essential and Elite. There is also special pricing for the Photolab suite consisting of PhotoLab, Viewpoint, and FilmPack Elite, but that also is not an edition of PhotoLab. I believe Capture One currently only has a single version. Lightroom has Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic and even those two versions cause a lot of confusion for new users. Simple is better.
Mark
Hi,
I agree with Mark,
There are Elite and Essential and the corresponding Bundles
Here DxO PhotoLab 5 Essential you can click at “Compare Editions” to see
Here is another pointer to the way the market is going. ON1’s equivalent to Topaz Sharpen AI. This again will be available as a plugin and integrated for free into PhotoRaw.
DeepPrime is unbeatable for denoise but a sharpen/deblur tool would be a great addition.
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They also claim to have improved the Noise Reduction in the upcoming PhotoRaw.
Competition is good as hopefully, it keeps the developers focused on what the customer perceives as important.
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It’s mostly there with the Lens Sharpness tool. If it could be applied with masks, PhotoLab is almost there. I tested Topaz Sharpen AI recently (an older version) and there are real limits to what it can do. Similar to the limits of the Lens Sharpness tool in PhotoLab. There’s some edge cases which look impressive but it has to fall into a sweet spot.
I’d be happy to see this as an add-on like ViewPoint. The DAM in PhotoLab should also be an add-on like ViewPoint or FilmPack.
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A poor choice of words on my part. I meant to say that ViewPoint seems to me like an extra set of features for PhotoLab rather than deserving to be a standalone product. Whereas FilmPack seems like a whole separate function. ViewPoint is, after all, mostly about correcting photos, where FilmPack is mostly about creativity.
On whether the difference between editions is clear enough:
- One person in this very thread mentioned customers being confused by what is available. That, in itself, is a problem. It should be very obvious.
- Multiple people I have personally spoken with did not realise what was missing. Same problem.
The way to make it obvious is to include wording with every mention of edition-specific features to make this clear, as well as having a prominent comparison table on the product page.
To illustrate my point, I notice that even though the web site has had a significant makeover recently, this page does not include a single mention of the words “Elite”, “Essential”, nor “edition” anywhere. You have to go into an FAQ section to find the differences, yet that first page contains DeepPRIME and ClearView Plus within the half of the page and neither does the dedicated DeepPRIME page mention any editions.
That is not being up front.
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I agree that for a basically sharp photo, PhotoLab’s lens sharpness is exceptionally good. But for those missed-focus occasions Sharpen AI is a very useful tool. Far from perfect, but being a recent purchaser, it has rescued several images for me. PhotoLab has the unsharp mask for such situations, but I find Sharpen AI to be superior in many situations.
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Actually FilmPack and Viewpoint are equally integral to PhotoLab and I use one or more FilmPack features during almost every editing session. They are both stand-alone products as well so they can also be used with other software and by those who are not PhotoLab users.
Mark
@zkarj I agree, Sharpen AI is excellent at rescuing images where focus has just been missed by a fraction or there is a bit of motion blur (non-creative use!)
It would be brilliant if Photolab had similar tools for these circumstances, and control points would be great for specifying the location of such sharpening.
My main frustration with Sharpen AI is the time taken to mask the areas I do and don’t want it to work on.
I feel I’m not getting my point across.
The features in ViewPoint do not, in my opinion, warrant a separate app. It has exactly two features: distortion tools for correcting distorted images, and the tilt-shift effect. The only thing in common between these features is that they both deal with the “viewpoint”, but they are quite distinct areas of processing.
I’m sure the majority of PhotoLab customers would want the distortion tools and the minority would care much about the tilt-shift.
FilmPack has really only one feature — simulation of film. Yes, there is the fine contrast slider we’d all love in PhotoLab, but it is primarily about processing colour and adding other effects in service of emulating film.
To my mind I see there is a market for customers to take their images from wherever and with no other DxO products, process them to look more analogue with tools designed for that purpose. I do not see a market for people with no other DxO products to buy a tool only to deform their images — it is such a narrow toolset for a standalone product, especially when may products competing with PhotoLab already have such tools.
So yes, I know what products come in what editions and what works standalone and what integrates. I just do not agree that the current mix is the right mix. The products don’t make sense to me, and that is regardless of what I would personally want.
Hence why I said…
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Viewpoint also has the very useful Volume deformation tool. Saying that FilmPack only has one real feature suggests you are not very familiar with this software. FilmPack contains
- Four fine contrast sliders:
- The lens filter simulation
- The Grain tool
- The Channel mixer
- Creative vignetting
- The Blur tool
- The Frame tool
- The Texture tool
- The Light leak tool.
I use most of those tools on a fairly regular basis and there is no requirement to use them with film simulations. There is also the new Time Machine not to mention around 100 film and effects simulations. For many the use of FilmPack embedded into PhotoLab replaces much of the need for Nik Collection programs like Silver Efex Pro I also created presets for all the film types, which are used by a number of people on this site.
Mark.
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Another form of distortion control.
As for FilmPack…
- Fine contrast sliders — already noted.
- Lens filter — creative tool, probably heavily used in the “looks”.
- Grain tool — creative tool, for film simulation.
- Channel mixer — creative tool, likely in service of film simulation.
- Creative vignetting — creative tool, in service of film simulation (or at least, “old” equipment simulation).
- Blur tool — creative, in service of film simulation.
- Frame tool — creative, in service of film simulation.
- Texture tool — creative, in service of film simulation.
- Light leak tool — creative, in service of film simulation.
You might get the idea from that list that FilmPack is about film simulation, and that is its primary (and really only) feature. Lots of tools, very few features.
You might think of FilmPack in terms of film simulation but, in fact, some of the tools are necessary simply to provide decent B&W renderings, which are necessary because most digital cameras don’t deal with the concept of B&W photography.
Apart from the horrendously expensive Leica and a couple of others, most cameras produce colour RAW files, which need to be “converted” in post production. This is far from ideal as the sensors rarely react correctly to colours, in terms of shades of grey.
Normally, with a film camera, using B&W film, we can choose from different B&W films to give us the desired rendering we want in terms of tonal response and grain. In addition to which, we are well used to putting coloured filters on the lens to help determine what tonal response to different mixtures of colours we desire. FilmPack’s colour filters “sort of” work but still don’t necessarily have the same effect as a filter on a film camera.
Nonetheless, if you are a B&W shooter, you certainly need FilmPack just to get a half decent rendering. The B&W presets make for reasonable starting points but, just as with colour images, you still need to “tweak” things and this is where certain of the FilmPack tools come in as essential, not optional.
- Lens filter — essential for B&W images
- Grain tool — not essential but better than tools like ClearView Plus and micro-contrast
- Channel mixer — essential for B&W images
- Blur tool — takes the place of soft-focus filters on the lens (B&W or colour)
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You may think FilmPack is a one trick pony, but that is incorrect. Perhaps you are doing a reportage style of photography in which case being creative is obviously not your thing. But for me photography and creatively go hand in hand. The Channel mixer is intended for B&W photography. I use it several time a week. The creative vignetting helps me evoke emotion and set moods, as does the blur tool. One or more of the four fine contrast sliders are used in the majority of my images.
FilmPack’s features are all integral parts of a high quality image editor. While I use most of FilmPack’s features for color photography (except for the channel mixer), they are critical for B&W photography as @Joanna indicated. By the way, I forgot to mention that she graciously created the presets for all the new FilmPack 6.2 presets when I was busy cleaning up after hurricane Ida in the USA. .
Mark
Creative vignetting should certainly be in the main PhotoLab application. Stashing vignetting away in FilmPack is another one of those Gallic tricks which first fool people and then make them angry.
It’s impossible to do most commercial photography without using vignetting as a basic processing tool.
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As I believe you know, I have advocated for there being only one version of PhotoLab with all the embedded Elite, Viewpoint and FilmPack features available at a somewhat higher price than PhotoLab Elite alone.
Mark
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OK, I am clearly never going to get my point across, which is a “40,000 ft” viewpoint, not a detailed analysis of every possible use of every control in every app.
I still think the product mix is wrong and not in keeping with “the market”. But that is my cross to bear.
Carry on as you were…
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