Colour Management in PL6

You’re most welcome :slightly_smiling_face:

PL6.3 now provides “support for color profiles in multi-display setups” acording to the release notes. I don’t know how this is implemented because no additional info is given :thinking:

You can check this with a file containing out-of-gamut colours and move it (PL6) from one screen to the other with Monitor gamut warning ON.

→ seems to work ←

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I do not own pl6 :grinning:

Yes, I can confirm this :grinning:

Hi all,

here is an updated diagram with the latest information on PL6.3 and the two white papers released by DxO with PL6.3. The usual disclaimers apply :slight_smile: -)

I hope you find it useful and as usual, comments are welcome.

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Then you don’t have to confuse yourself.
You have only Legacy Working Colorspace.
:slightly_smiling_face:

Yes, but I’m following the thread with interest to know what works and what doesn’t, and I’m hoping for a complete, clean implementation including softproofing and a technically proper explanation of the technical background as would be expected from a “global player” in the field of graphics software. :smile:

Hey there folks.

Look - you know me - long time user and tester of PL. But I still don’t “get” how this stuff is meant to help me because, at the moment, I am finding it is getting in the way when compared with my current PL5 workflow.

I’m trying to approach these tests from the point of view of someone who has simply upgraded from PL5 to PL6 and who never bothered with colour management in the past.

Let me start with the default colour rendering applied to a new image.

In the default Wide Gamut colour space, this appears to be


Capture d’écran 2023-02-10 Ă  11.15.04


 compared with PL5, which gives


Capture d’écran 2023-02-10 Ă  11.17.06

This gives me a rendering in PL6 of



 compared to PL5


So, if I’ve got this right, the PL6 version has lighter shadows because the extended gamut reveals more detail.

Fortunately, PL6 automatically uses the Legacy colour space to any images that have already been edited in PL5, so this apparent change in rendering won’t upset any previous work when upgrading.

I shall create a separate post(s) for other aspects, but can someone confirm that I have got this right so far?

Part 2.

In PL5, if I change the default colour rendering to


Capture d’écran 2023-02-10 Ă  11.30.40


 I get a slightly darker rendering


But, if I do the same in PL6, for the first time, I also get a slight change in lens geometry


Subsequent changes to the colour rendering, however, do not make any further changes to the geometry.

I think I smell a teeny-weeny bug. Can someone confirm this?

Hi Guenterm. See here for the Marketing dept version 
 and then follow the “Learn more” link at the bottom for a complete technical explanation. I reckon it’s pretty good !

John

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Hi Joanna.

If you’re trying to get PLv6+ to render an image in exactly the same way as PLv5 does - then I expect you’ll encounter disappointment and frustration. Things don’t work quite the way they used to (in PLv5).

Instead, I suggest you only reprocess those images already processed with PLv5 (now using PLv6+) on as as-needs basis and with one-by-one care 
 not as a bulk re-export batch.

When working with PLv6+

  • If your starting point for Color Rendering used to be Generic/Neutral color, realistic tonality - - now, with PLv6+, use Generic/Camera profile instead.

  • Assuming you are targeting export for Display (on a monitor - not for printing) then activate Soft Proofing, select your target ICC Profile - and leave SP ON, permanently.

Otherwise, you can now proceed with the exact same workflow that you’ve used with PLv5.

Hope that helps - - John

Joanna

I’ve been testing PL5.7.0 vs PL6.3.1 with regard to the various generic color rendering selections.

Test methods: DNG Raw file (Leica Q) with an aRGB jpeg in-camera setting; aRGB display; Win 11 PC, Preset = optical corrections only, WB, Lens Sharpness = 1.00, HQ Denoising. These are the only settings toggled on, everything else is off. With these initial settings, I then selected the various generic color renderings, exported 16-bit aRGB TIFFs, and examined the images / histograms in Fast Raw Viewer.

Results: with the classic (legacy) working color space, all five of the generic color renderings in PL5 produce images / histograms that appear identical to their counterparts in PL6.

In PL6 DxO wide gamut, the Neutral color selection will produce an image / histogram that is different from any of the other five settings in the classic (legacy) working color space and seems closest to the neutral color, neutral tonality selection.

The DxO generic camera profile (Leica Q in this case) selection will produce identical images / histograms in PL5 and PL6 in the classic (legacy) working color space. This setting in PL6 DxO wide gamut produces a similar image and slightly different histogram to that produced in the classic (legacy) color working space.

Again, these results are from the PC versions of PL5 and PL6. BHAY and I have been reporting on our PC findings in other topic threads. There have been some reports there from others of possible differences using the Mac versions, but no detailed tests have been presented to date, as far as I know.

I agree John, that’s the pragmatic approach to these situations, which are not exceptional. In other software when something fundamental like process (demosaic) engines, colour pipeline are changed, or tools are removed/replaced, acceptance and adaptation are required.

Personally, I primarily use C1 and the changes in V6.3, colour pipeline and soft proofing, I have found to be very welcome and close the gap between DXO and C1. In C1 you are always colour proofing by default so this aspect of V6 has not been an issue for me. Out of interest, if time permits, I will be comparing the print proofing between DXO and C1.

Thanks are due to all of the engineers at the “coal face” in DXO for not only delivering a new colour pipeline but taking the time to fully explain the rational behind their choices.

Something for the DXO code Ninja’s as they prepare to do it all again for V7::slight_smile:

SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS

  1. I can’t fix this!
  2. Crisis of confidence
  3. QUESTIONS CAREER
  4. Questions life
  5. Oh, it was a typo, cool. :slight_smile:
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John-M

In the classic (legacy) working color space, I would suggest for those using neutral color, realistic tonality (gamma 2.2) in PL5 to try Neutral color in PL6 as these selections appear to give identical results in the tests posted previously.

In PL6 DxO wide gamut working color space, the Neutral color rendering seems closest to classic (legacy) neutral color, neutral tonality.

I certainly agree with that moving from PL5 classic (legacy) to PL6 DxO wide gamut is going to present some problems. For many, staying within classic (legacy) working color space will make for an easier transition.

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Hi John. I am certainly not going to be re-working all my images, especially since the vast majority have not even seen the light of day outside of reviewing and playing with certain selected ones.

If I may pester a bit more. Take my lobster image, in a new folder so there are no artefacts from PL5, open it with my “optical corrections only” default preset on my Apple P3 display


This gives me


I haven’t even touched the Colour Rendering palette, which shows, disabled, as


Capture d’écran 2023-02-11 Ă  11.27.19

Before PL6, I would have more than likely done nothing with an image like this apart from exporting it to TIFF for printing with the ProPhotoRGB profile and then used my own custom profile for my printer and inks.

Now, if I click on the little monitor button above the histogram, I get this


I gather this is meant to show out of gamut warnings, but in relation to what?

Do I need to do anything


  1. if I am exporting to sRGB for posting to a website?
  2. if I am exporting to ProPhotoRGB for printing?

Part of my work as a software consultant was to ensure that app features were obvious and intuitive. Up until now, PL used to (mostly) fall into that description but, with this, I am still having difficulty nailing down simple workflows to teach to others.

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As far as I know the monitor warnings are based on the working gamut and the oog warnings are based on the soft proof gamut.
The clipping warnings are based on the in memory image with the working gamut so it would be clearer if the monitor warnings moved under the histogram.

George

OK George. Don’t get upset with me, because I am not just playing the idiot here, that sounds like more like Venusian than English.

Where does the soft proofing come in? I haven’t done anything to activate it at all, it is just what appears when I simply click on the little monitor icon - I am not trying to soft proof for anything (yet).

Ask me to write software and I would have no problems but this stuff is really “annoying” me because I still don’t seem to be able to find a really simple step by step guide, despite all the best efforts of John, you and others.

Surely, if the image looks good enough on a correctly profiled screen, it will look alright when printed on a correctly profiled printer? What am I missing?

Why am I getting this error when applying soft proofing with PL6.3 Mac?

Hi Joanna,
sometime before when testing ( → note ) I had seen an error message about LUT, but it vanished so quickly that I couldn’t grab a screenshot. May I suggest to pass it on to DxO.

Since 6.3.0.116 / 6.3.1.134 (Windows) those problems mostly seem to be solved.
Wolfgang