If you are used to the tool’s from some other processor it takes a while to learn how to get the best from PhotoLab. You have to relearn how to apply similar named tools. Once mastered you may find that PhotoLab will give you superior results. I did
Mark
I don’t think so. But as I said, PL5 as a raw pre-processor is a valuable add to my workflow, and I do not regret my purchase.
True but isn’t this forum here to assist new users? So far zero input on workflow from anyone as to how they process Raf files.
While individuals may assist new users to get the best from their software, ultimately this is not a training website. Generally, if people ask specific questions, or have specific issues, others here will do their best to assist them.
Also keep in mind that support for raf files is brand new, and officially still in beta. There will be further enhancements to the processing of these files. Since support of Fuji xtrans sensors is brand new, there are not a lot of veteran PhotoLab users with expertise developing this newly supported format.
Mark
I also found that “Clearview Plus” adds significant noise to the image, even if the source image is clean low ISO. I don’t know what “Clearview Plus” does exactly, it’s some sort of dehaze function, but like many of the PL5 controls it doesn’t seem to play nice with Fuji .raf files. For now (as said, Fuji support is still beta) I only use PL5 as a preprocessor using the DeepPrime and the optical correction modules, as well as the filmpack simulations. Everything else is done in Lightroom. Even then there are some quirks that need to be adressed but this workflow is an improvement over the LR-only workflow.
(BTW it’s a real PITA to write in this tiny text-editor. What happened?)
Thanks for the reply. This is what I am experiencing also. Deep Prime does a great job on high iso files. I will probably just use the application for those files and then transfer as a DNG to ACR.
Clearview Plus is primarily intended to reduce haze in an image and can appear quite “aggressive” if used inappropriately or excessively. I would suggest you look at using Fine Contrast instead, which is much more subtle when bringing out detail. If you have FilmPack, you get three extra Fine Contrast sliders, for shadow, mid-tone and highlight fine contrast, which beautiful results without incurring the same apparent “noise” that Clearview Plus does.
It makes total sense if you are processing images that have been taken at low ISO, to maximise the dynamic range available. The bast way to take high dynamic range images is to expose for the highlights and recover shadow detail. This means you can be pulling up shadow detail from 12 stops under 0EV exposure, which can contain significant noise.
I use DeepPRIME all the time, regardless of the ISO and regardless of any other tools used.
The simple answer is that you process RAF files like you would any other RAW file format.
Why go to all that hassle when all you have to do is avoid using Clearview plus and stay in PhotoLab from beginning to end.
ACR is only a RAW converter - PhotoLab is a RAW converter. What do you expect to gain by taking a RAW file into PhotoLab and then exporting it to DNG, only to run it through a second RAW converter, which may well undo the DeepPRIME applied when exporting? And, after you have run it through ACR, you end upon with a non-RAW file, like a TIFF, thus losing the ability to alter any RAW adjustments later in the processing.
The advantage of using PhotoLab is that you never need to leave the RAW file from beginning to end, only exporting something like a JPEG or TIFF file when you are finally satisfied.
Sorry but that is total nonsense. It makes perfect sense to use PL5 as a rawconverter/denoiser and export as linear DNG into Photoshop via ACR or into LR (which uses ACR as the underlaying engine) and do further processing there. This is even the main selling pitch on the DXO website: “perfect integration with Adobe workflow”!
What you just said isn’t even possible: “undo DeepPrime”
Once again, this makes no sense at all. Do you understand what ACR is, and what it does?
I understand that for the PL veterans HDR is a thing (it shows in the few examples of images I have come across, and also in the way some controls like the “selective tone controls” are implemented. But please accept that the new batch of users that come here since Fujifilm X-Trans support has been introduced in the DXO suite, are perhaps not that interested in HDR. Also, I would like to suggest (it has happened to me here since I subscribed) to FIRST try to know who you are talking to, before giving “photography 101” advice… It’s not because we are new HERE that we are necessarily beginners, and some regulars don’t seem to realize that they are maybe patronizing seasoned professionals/advanced hobbyists/established artists that just happen to shoot Fujifilm.
Hello,
I just want to say that DeepPrime doens’t only improve denoising but also demosaicking. So if you have images with lot of fine details at low ISO, using DeepPrime will improve quality of image.
Regards,
Marie
Hello Marie,
Very interesting answer! My question is as follows: does this only concern the Xtrans matrix from Fuji, or is it also valid for the classic Bayer matrix, therefore all other sensors?
gerarto
Adobe Camera Raw converts RAW files so that they can be edited in Adobe’s products. If you use PhotoLab, it allows you to work with RAW files without the need to convert them until you finally want to export them.
When PhotoLab exports to DNG, it creates a file that has been converted from its original RAW format, processed and then exported. It is no longer the original RAW file but a linear DNG, which is usually several times the size of the original RAW file.
So, now you have two files - the original RAW and a large linear DNG copy. A simple question - why?
I am not talking about HDR in the sense of taking multiple shots and merging them. What I am referring to is making the most of the DR that your camera provides. In order to benefit from a camera’s full DR, it requires shooting at low ISO, exposing for the highlights and recovering the shadows in post processing, which is a totally different thing from what most people think of HDR. And which camera you use is totally irrelevant.
What I don’t get is why you are making a big fuss about having to treat Fuji files differently to any others that we have been working on for years in PhotoLab.
You may well be a “seasoned professional” who is used to using non-DxO tools but, if you are new to PhotoLab, you certainly are not a seasoned user and may not yet have understood that PhotoLab is not just a RAW converter but a fully fledged image processing tool that can do almost everything that other apps can do without having to go back to them.
If I give advice here that happens to mention basic photographic techniques, it is because, over the many years I have been teaching photography, I still come across people who are “doing it the hard way”, stuck in the rut of “this is the way I have always done it”.
I also shoot large format film and have to scan 5" x 4" negatives and transparencies to TIFF files, so I am well used to using PS. Before I was introduced to PhotoLab (v1), I also used to use ACR and Photoshop to process digital RAW files. It took some time to get used to PL’s way of doing things but, once I realised that I no longer had to mess around with multiple apps and get stuck with duplicate RAW/PSD/TIFF files, I found that life was so much easier and I didn’t have to pay Adobe every month for the “privilege” of using their over-complicated software.
And, don’t forget that advice given here is not meant solely for your benefit, it forms part of an archive that not so seasoned photographers can refer to.
DeepPRIME denoising works for all sensors and, as @Marie says, works wonders on cleaning up shadow detail in low ISO RAW images of any format
Yes, better demosaiking with DeepPrime works for all sensors.
Marie
Because we then can edit in Lightroom with the benefit of DeepPrime and the DXO optical corrections.
Which obviously will NOT “undo DeepPrime”.
Sorry I will not reply to the rest of your post, I have already in a very friendly manner said what I wanted to say, and I’m not willing to engage in a umptiest “Adobe vs Whatever” thread.
Hello Joanna
I have no doubt about the effectiveness of DeepPRIME denoising even at low iso, and with a Bayer matrix: I use it often. But my question was about improving demosaicing as indicated by Marie.
gerarto
And that is what I thought I confirmed. DeepPRIME is integral to demosaïcing, whatever the sensor or RAW format.
My question “why?” is more about why you would buy a fully functional image editing app like PhotoLab just to use it as a denoising tool, then miss out on all the astounding stuff that PhotoLab can do without having to convert to another format?
What do you find that PhotoLab can’t do that forces you back to Lightroom? Or is it more a simple case of your not wanting to change tools?
Nobody is making “a fuss” and I would like to invite you to read the whole thread all over again, you’ll find that in fact I’m very positive.
What YOU don’t get is that FUJI support doesn’t work well YET. It’s currently not possible to edit in PL5 from the beginning to the end because the preview is blurry, noisy, with a lot of artifacts and doesn’t reflect at all what the final export will look like, regardless of what format we export in. It’s not possible to work that way, and as I have already said in another post, I’m willing to give some of my time to help resolving these problems and get Fuji support out of beta stage.
The preview is the same for all file type unless you zoom in to the minimum of 75%. It’s not just Fuji files.
This is because denoising is an expensive process and would slow down previewing too much to be useful for editing.
Instead of exporting to DNG and going back to Lightroom, why don’t you do a denoising export to DNG and then open the DNG in PL5?
Try it and see.
I don’t understand what you want. Please let me be. This is going nowhere, it’s intrusive. I’m prefectly happy with my workflow. I paid for the software, please let me use it as I seem fit.
BTW even at 100% preview is soft and noisy. I have send screenshots and uploaded raw files to support a month ago.