About color profiles and Lightroom integration

DxO PhotoLab
1

Hi, For the time being I will be using Lightroom as my main hub, and do, when needed, roundtrips to DXO PL5.
-When I choose “export to LR - corrections only” I have no issues: back in LR I can assign my usual color profiles (Adobe, Camera matching, custom…) and the result is as expected.

-When I choose “export to LR - all corrections aplied”, AND in PL5 's color rendering tab I switch OFF the color rendering tool, back in LR I can apply my usual color profiles, and the results are satisfyingly close to what I expect (a bit different but not much).
If I switch ON the color rendering tool but leave the settings to default (generic renderings/camera default rendering), the result is nearly identical as well.

-When I choose a film simulation in PL5, and I export as DNG/all corrections applied, I can’t seem to find a profile in Lightroom that doesn’t interfere with the rendering I chose in PL5. (Adobe Standard, Color, Neutral or “Embedded” all modify the initial rendering). I’m not surprised at all, I don’t need explanations, but I’d like to know if there are profiles/LUTS available for Lightroom that respect the color rendering applied in PL5. I know how to make my own profiles and LUT’s in the Adobe workflow if necessary, but I guess this is has already been discussed? Thanks

2

Colour differences have been discussed indeed, but not your idea of a special Lightroom profile.

I’m using a mixed LrC-PL workflow and I also see changes in colours depending on how I proceed in the workflow. My lessons learned are to not mix functions between PL and LrC.

In cases where I want or need PL processing

  • I use PL for lens correction, noise treatment and WB+HSL,
    then export the result as 16 bit TIFF for further treatment in Lightroom.
  • I use PL for lens correction, noise treatment *without * WB+HSL, DNG works too
    with whatever will show in Lightroom, which I then use to get the image I want

Hint: Do final touches (whatever they may be) in the last app you use.

3

It has been discussed before but I didn’t get a definitive l answer. Does a DNG contain a color profile?? Except the one for the embedded jpg.

George

4

There is an article about linear DNG on the DXO blog, but it isn’t entirely clear about what DNG it’s talking about. I have the impression that when exporting with the option “NR+optical only” we remain in the linear domain, but when exporting with the option “all corrections applied” we produce a tiff encapsulated in the DNG container. But I’m not sure: for my cameras, filesizes are double the original raw file for both DNG options, but over triple the filesize when exported as 16bit tiff. So that doesn’t help me figure out what’s best to do. As-is, and without more information, a DNG with “all corrections applied” will not be correctly displayed in Lightroom.

5

OK, I think I found something. This seems to be a colorspace issue. Tiffs exported from PL5 have approx the same rendering in LR whether exported in sRGB or Adobe98.

The DNG-“all corrections applied” displays approx the same in LR’s library module, but is oversaturated in the develop module, which is what one would expect when, for instance, displaying a sRGB image on a Adobe98 monitor without colormanagement.

I can get it to display correctly when softproofing to the Adobe98 colorspace.

( Note:I compare at 100% magnification so I’m looking at the full image, not the preview).

This has never happened with other DNG files. And the original raw file doesn’t exhibit this behaviour. The image was shot with the camera in sRGB mode, so that is what is written to the EXIF. So there is a mishap somewhere in the process. I don’t know (yet) if this is on LR’s side or on DXO’s side. I’ll try to figure it out (I would rather be doing something else, but well…)

In the meantime, to reply-to-self to the original question: if in Lightroom, I set the develop module in softproof mode to the Adobe98 colorspace, then when using the “embedded” profile the PL5 colors transcribe correctly in LR.

This is pretty annoying: this should be handled automatically by the colormanagement system, it’s easy to produce wrong results.

EDIT: I deleted an erronous analysis on my part. When opening the DNG “all corrections applied” in PS, ACR displays the file as expected, in Adobe98 colorspace, 8-bit, and selects “embedded profile” automatically. Maybe the issue is on Lightroom’s side then. Also, opening the DNG in PL5 itself, gives correct colors

EDIT 2: CaptureOne behaves the same as Lightroom, I need to enable softproofing in Adobe98 for the colors to be correctly mapped.
I don’t know the data structure of a DNG file (I have the SDK so I can look it up) but it could be that there is a wrong tag somewhere.

6

Are you thinking about this blog entry?

I think that this is the most important part: “While (normal) DNG files store unprocessed RAW data, Linear DNG files store intermediate results of RAW conversion, with some processing steps applied—but only linear ones. Therefore, they provide the same flexibility as RAW files for adjusting color and contrast.”

This does not explain colour differences though. Whatever the reasons for these differences are, I’m at peace with the fact that they exist and knowing how to deal with them (see my previous entry)…

If you come across the definitive answer, let us know.

7

I created a topic in Adobe support forum. As I said, in the meantime, to get your FP6 colors correctly transcribed in LR using a DNG "all corrections applied, the profile you must select in LR is “embedded”, and you must enable softproofing, Adobe98. Same goes for CaptureOne.

Hopefully this will be solved so that we don’t need to bother with that extra softproofing step.

8

PhotoLab or FilmPack?

9

The FilmPack colors in PL5

10

…we’ve been talking about PL, now you mention FP. Please explain - or have I misread your posts?

11

I have the FP6 installed so it shows up as part of PL5. In other words, In PL5 I can select FP6 presets

12

Follow-up: I’ve spent a couple of hours trying to debug this, and initiated a convo on Adobe’s support forum too, and I’ve come to believe the issue is with the embedded profile in the DNG, which seems to be off. I think this is a bug.

I will raise a support ticket/file a bug report.

In the meantime, I made a Lightroom/ACR profile that attempts to correct the embedded profile by offsetting the HSL sliders: it’s a workaround of course, not perfect but it comes close, at least on my screens. I might not work on yours: let me know!

I attach the file for those who are interested.

Install the file in your profile folder (on windows: C:\Users\YOURUSERNAME\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\CameraRaw\Settings ) and restart Lightroom. The profile will show up in the group “Photo-DKO”.

When used on a DNG exported from PL5 with the option “all corrections applied” this profile will match the colors in Lightroom’s Develop module to the colors in PL5. You might need half a stop or so exposure boost to match a DXO DNG perfectly with it’s corresponding jpeg or tiff export, but that’s more a DXO issue, not related to this profile.

FWIW…

Last day for BF discount, I think I will bite the bullet and get that DXO suite…

DXO DNG Match V1.xmp (2,0 Ko)

13

beware: at times, the bundle is more expensive than the individual apps bought separately…

14

Yes, I noticed. I just bought the premium suite. Some stuff needs to be ironed out but after a month running the demo I’m happy with my purchase!

15

For the record, I just raised a support ticket and filed a complete bug report.

16

Just an update: in PL6 using the Wide Gamut option this issue has been significantly improved. I still have that suypport ticket open. But this improvement comfirms there was a big colorspace issue in PL5 (and earlier). It’s not yet exactly there: a DNG from PL6 opened in LR still has some colorshifts, but significantly less when using the Wide Gamut working space. It could be related to the embedded profile information in the EXIF. I had provided exhaustive information to support, but that was nearly a year ago. Such major issues seem to take huge amouts of time to get fixed… I would have preferred if DxO had opted for Prophoto as working colorspace: I analysed the new Gamut and the remaining issues I encounter with color correspondance between Adobe and DxO are located in the areas where ProPhoto and DxO don’t overlap. I don’t think it’s such a great idea to reinvent the wheel all the time!

17

Here’s a comparison between the Classic Gamut and the Wide Gamut in terms of output. These are Fujifilm X-Trans files. All are sRGB renderings from Lightroom with the Provia (=Fujifilm standard) profile applied. From left to right: the Original SOOC jpeg, the PL6 Wide Gamut DNG (all corr. applied) as rendered in LR, the PL6 Classic Gamut DNG (all corr. applied) as rendered in LR.

There’s a big improvement concerning the reds. That was a major issue in PL5. But we still have a shift in the blues (see the deep blue patch on the colorchecker), and the yellows are a bit orangy. My main concern was those reds, that was really impossible to work with. So there’s progress being made.

This forum messes with colors(!!!) so you must open this file outside the forum software

Gamut comparison (DNG output)

18

Hello,
just found an article about linear profiles The Linear Profile: A new beginning in Lightroom and Camera Raw – Good Light Journal
https://goodlight.us/Installing_and_Using_Linear_Profiles.pdf

Did not want to create a new post and by searching the forum I’ve found this post where 'I now place the link.

Tested the information with the downloaded DCP for my EM5MII and worked as described.
Not sure if it makes my workflow better :sunglasses:.

So it’s only for information

best regards

Guenter